I look forward to seeing her on trial.
Maybe we’ll just have a confiscation and you won’t have to worry about paying a fine.
Illinois State Senator
June 11, 2019
MOLON LABE, BABY!
[Maybe she will be arrested and prosecuted for violation of 18 USC 242 and she won’t have to worry about an mob of angry gun owners hunting her.—Joe]
…hopes that Glocester will oppose this measure if it comes up again in June. Although the resolution is symbolic, it is undoubtedly harmful because it advances the false narrative that the very rights and livelihoods of Second Amendment supporters are at risk. Law-abiding gun owners though should have no reason to feel threatened by the gun safety measures that community organizers advocate for, and in fact, all regulations–from banning guns in schools to banning military style assault weapons are constitutional.
Rhode Island Coalition Against Gun Violence
May 18, 2019
Political Divide Splitting Communities Across RI — Is It a Trump Factor?
[You should not feel threatened because “all regulations … are constitutional.”
Wow! That’s so reassuring.
I hope they enjoy their trial.—Joe]
Today, we are standing up to our leaders to let them know that it is time to drain the swamp. It is time to dissolve the National Rifle Association.
Executive Director of Coalition to Stop Gun Violence
May 17, 2019
Email with the subject “The NRA has got to go”.
[I find it very telling that Horwitz is eager to destroy the nations oldest civil rights organization.
It tells people everything they need to know about him and his organization. He is opposed to civil rights and should he succeed in this endeavor it will make it that much easier to attack and destroy other civil rights organizations and the rights they are attempting to protect.
It is his organization that “has got to go”. They are in violation of 18 USC 241 and should be prosecuted. I look forward to his trial and hope Horwitz enjoys his trial as much as I will.—Joe]
Lol read up about Waco. Y’all will never win, but its cute you think you could! That would help rid the country of gun nuts faster though…
This is what anti-gun people think of you, the country needs to be rid of “gun nuts” and their families. Burning gun owners and their families alive is entirely appropriate to him.
Good to know.
What he apparently doesn’t realize is that among the lessons we learned from Waco and numerous other incidents throughout history is to never give up your guns.
Mike, I hope you http://bit.ly/EnjoyYourTrial1.
As sheriff of Nye County, I agree with Sheriff Watts: I will not participate in the enforcement of this new law and certainly won’t stand silent, while my citizens are turned into criminals due to the unconstitutional actions of misguided politicians who, for the most part, are trying to do the right thing.
March 7, 2019
Sheriff of Nye County, Nevada
Letter to Governor Sisolak
[I think she is being generous with the “misguided politicians”. But I can understand why saying, “You are a bunch of evil, communists, SOBs!” would not be helpful at this point in time so I give her a pass on that.
We’ve known, and have been saying, for a long time now that the law enforcement will ignore these stupid and unconstitutional gun laws. We now have proof, not just anonymous polling data, in several states, that much of law enforcement is on our side on this issue. And this one is about simple background checks! This isn’t about something as extreme as banning most semi-automatic guns.
If the political left does not, or cannot, pull themselves out of this downward spiral into a confrontation we could see their first trials in a few years or perhaps even months. Give them fair warning. Tell them to enjoy their trials. Give them these links http://bit.ly/EnjoyYourTrial1 for private citizens and http://bit.ly/EnjoyYourTrial2 for government employees.—Joe]
It’s a shame that in their rush to “do something”– anything – Democrats have made this critical debate a partisan show. Last week, my Democrat colleagues rushed to pass two partisan pieces of legislation that would have done nothing to stop some of the most prominent mass shootings in recent memory. H.R. 8 would not have stopped Newtown. H.R. 8 would not have stopped Parkland. It would not have stopped Las Vegas, or Sutherland Springs, or San Bernardino or many other tragedies. But the proponents of gun control don’t want you to judge them based on outcomes; they want you to judge them based on intentions.
United States Representative for North Carolina
March 2, 2019
H.R. 8 won’t stop school shootings
[I thank Representative Hudson for standing up for our rights and pointing out the deliberate deception of many anti-gun people.
While I agree that what Hudson says in that last sentence is true for many people and it’s a relatively safe thing to say to avoid a lot of controversy it’s not entirely true.
I believe that some gun control proponents, particularly, but not exclusively the politicians, know the proposed gun legislation cannot make people safer and that is their intention. They want something that will fail to make people safer and, in fact prefer, that it will make people less safe. This gives the politician more power because it makes people more dependent upon government.
That said, the common person doesn’t realize they have been duped and believe the implied intention. I said “implied” because it is very rare that politician will come out and explicitly state that a law making access to guns more difficult will make people safer. They will say, “Its just common sense.” They will say, “No one should have these guns.” They will say, “80% of the people want background checks.” But they don’t say, “Criminologist predict this will reduce violent crime by 20%.” Or, “This will cut mass shootings deaths in half.” That they don’t make the claim that gun regulations will improve public safety strongly implies to me that they know it will not improve public safety.
I can give someone a temporary pass on not knowing something and making an overstated claim about their unproven hypothesis being true. But when they almost for certain know the truth and deliberately word things to deceive people that is an extremely strong indicator they are evil people. That these people deliberately deceive others to infringe a specific enumerated right make them criminals punishable by law.
I hope they enjoy their trials (http://bit.ly/EnjoyYourTrial2).—Joe
(1 )(a) “Assault weapon” means any:
(A) Semiautomatic rifle that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and has at least one of the following:
(i) Any grip of the weapon, including a pistol grip, a thumbhole stock or any other stock, the use of which would allow an individual to grip the weapon, resulting in any finger on the trigger hand in addition to the trigger finger being directly below any portion of the action of the weapon when firing;
(B) Semiautomatic pistol, or any semiautomatic, centerfire or rimfire rifle with a fixed magazine, that has the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds of ammunition;
The Common Sense Gun Regulation Act
Oregon, February 26, 2019
[There is a lot more but the above is all you need to know. Their intent is to ban nearly all semiautomatic rifles and pistols.
This is despite the Heller decision which specifically protected a semi-auto pistol and almost explicitly protected rifles of the type targeted by this law. These people, such as Greg Wasson, are criminals. I hope they enjoy their trials: http://bit.ly/EnjoyYourTrial1 and http://bit.ly/EnjoyYourTrial2.—Joe]
I had an opportunity to fire a fully automatic M16 assault rifle today under professional instruction. This is the same weapon US Armed Forces use. The experience made me feel even more strongly there is no reason for a civilian to have access to this weapon, or one like it.
For starters, growing up in the South, I took an NRA safety class as a teenager. I spent many an afternoon as a kid in target practice. But this assault rifle is a different beast. It would take A MINIMUM of 30-40 hours of professional instruction to learn to operate safely.
It shoots a 5.56 mm bullet. You can feel the wind of it firing three feet behind the shooter. The gun is very difficult to control. I’ve seen these fired thousands of times in games and movies. In real life you understand the devastation even being grazed would cause.
Candidate for US House of Representatives in MA District 8 for 2020.
Tweeted (and here and here) on February 26, 2019
[She feels strongly. Apparently she is also an extremely slow learner because the first set of Boomershoot 101 students did just fine with only a few hours of instruction and practice.
There are no strong feelings or imaginary excess wind exceptions to the 2nd Amendment. http://bit.ly/EnjoyYourTrial1.—Joe]
The anti-gun people have a narrative of “gun safety”. We know, as do they, they have never encouraged people to take a gun safety class or learn about guns. Ignorance and deliberate deception is all part of their game plan.
They insist background checks are “common sense” and save lives. They don’t save lives and are a deception for the real objectives:
- Creating lists of gun owners
- Delaying the exercise of a specific enumerated right
- Increasing the costs (time and money) of exercising our rights
They insist we don’t need a particular type of gun or accessory and we end up trying to convince them we do need it. It’s a Bill of Rights, not a Bill of Needs. They should be the ones attempting to convince us there is a “compelling governmental interest,” and have narrowly tailored the law to achieve that interest (strict scrutiny). Until they can do that the proposed law does not pass constitutional muster and they are attempting to infringe upon our rights. The default position is the proposed law is invalid until they can conclusively demonstrate they have met the requirements.
As it is we are playing defense and losing in public opinion.
It would seem to me that we need an easy narrative of our own. It must be something that tweets and sound bites well. It must put them on the defensive. We must gain the initiative in social media and when we contact our political representatives.
I discussed this with Brian K. and we came up with:
- http://bit.ly/EnjoyYourTrial1 (18 USC 241: Conspiracy against rights)
- http://bit.ly/EnjoyYourTrial2 (18 USC 242. Deprivation of rights under color of law)
These can be used in a variety of ways:
Think women shouldn’t be allowed to carry guns without a man’s permission? #EnjoyYourTrial (Aimed at may-issue states.)
Send teens to war but don’t let them own handguns? #EnjoyYourTrial
Disarm peaceful African Americans because they live in the wrong state? #EnjoyYourTrial.
Deny me the right to defend my family because of my skin color? #EnjoyYourTrial
You are trying to ban guns in common use protected by the Heller decision. #EnjoyYourTrial
A right delayed is a right denied. #EnjoyYourTrial
You are demanding people ask permission for a guaranteed right. #EnjoyYourTrial
Background checks don’t save lives (https://fee.org/articles/california-s-background-check-law-had-no-impact-on-gun-deaths-johns-hopkins-study-finds/) and infringe our rights. #EnjoyYourTrial
Gun control is prior restraint of specific enumerated right and is illegal. #EnjoyYourTrial
“Red flag” laws are prior restraint and are illegal. #EnjoyYourTrial
What you are doing is illegal. Everything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law. #EnjoyYourTrial
Yes, I know it’s not 100% correct in every context. But the point is to gain the initiative and put them on the defensive. I think this has a chance of doing that.
At the “urging” of ubu52 I finally decided to elaborate a bit on an edgy meme I’ve been pushing for quite some time. I’ve been saying something to the effect that people advocating for or enforcing anti-gun laws should be tried, convicted, and punished under 18 USC 241 and/or 18 USC 242. These are, essentially, laws that prohibit conspiracy to infringe the rights of others which are secured by the Constitution.
I’ve long known that those laws are not going to be enforced against anyone anytime soon. I’m pretty sure there are even some laws that give immunity to government officials under many circumstances.
I don’t care.
I’m taking a long term view of things. There have been many instances throughout history where activities that were perfectly legal or at least accepted by all “right thinking folks” became politically out of favor. Then, as long as the statute of limitations had not expired, prosecutors found pre-existing laws to enforce and punish those who engaged in the activity. The most famous example of this is probably the Nuremberg Trials.
Examples exist in our country too.
Lynching blacks 75 years ago was technically illegal but the risk of prosecution and conviction was pretty low. Decades later some of those people were convicted of murder.
The perpetrators of the internment of Japanese were never brought to justice but, decades later, payments were made to those people who were put into the camps.
Ubu52’s point in regard to people advocating for gun control is:
But they should have the freedom to do that, right? This is the USA, isn’t it? Joe is saying that they shouldn’t have the freedom to do whatever they want. I think he’s wrong.
At first glance, in this context, I’m pretty certain nearly everyone would agree with her. But, in todays context, what would be the legal response to advocating riots, lynching blacks, and assassinating politicians? Anyone doing that would be running a serious risk of prosecution if they or people they influenced began conspiring to implement some of those ideas.
The bottom line is that there are, and rightly so, limits to free speech. Those limits in general are, in our country and our time*, set at the point where someone else’s rights are in imminent danger of being violated. The classic “your right to swing your fist ends at my nose” says it more succinctly and less abstractly.
Think about that. The limits of free speech are the point at which someone else’s rights are in imminent danger of being violated.
You see where I’m going now, right?
This is a very clear logical path to prosecuting anti-gun people. Those that object to this logic either don’t regard being able to keep and bear arms as a “real right” or they are being logically inconsistent with those limits to free speech in existing law.
I’m not a lawyer but I’ve read enough court rulings to know that judges will almost always give at least lip service to logic. They may have to fabricate a logic scaffolding that only Rube Goldberg could admire but they will rule in a “logical” manner.
A logically consistent case can, and should, be made that advocating for the restriction of the right to keep and bear arms is no different than advocating for riots and lynching. People can and do die because they were denied their specific enumerated right to keep and bear arms. It is directly foreseeable that people will be injured because of people abusing their right to free speech.
The logic in my example is far, far less torturous that hundreds of court rulings. It could happen.
What I am trying to do with my “That will come up at your trial,”** quip is to change the culture such that it becomes possible to regard the deliberate infringement of other rights as a punishable offense. Yes, it’s sort of twisted in that I am advocating the restriction of one right to protect another right. It is not “twisted” in the sense that restricting the right to some sorts of speech it does not put people in danger of life or serious bodily harm such as restrictions on the right to keep and bear arms does.
Of course no judge today, or probably even ten years from now, will rule in such a manner. But I want the seeds planted. I want people to ask, “Why aren’t these people violating the law?” “Why aren’t these people being prosecuted?” I want the anti-gun people to pause and think about it.
I want to see the day, perhaps 20 years from now, when people are brought to trial for the crimes they are committing today. By the advocating the infringement of the specific enumerated right to keep and bear arms they caused the foreseeable, needless, injuries and deaths of tens of thousands and they should be brought to justice for that.
Update: L. Neil Smith points out we could, literally, have our own Nuremberg Trials in the U.S.
*Kevin links to a fascinating post which ties into this topic. It makes you think about other times and places if you are interested in a much bigger picture. For example, imagine a cultural shift where the advocating of the right to keep and bear arms is a punishable offense.
**Thanks to Sean for that line even if it was in a completely different context.
Gun control is prior restraint. Since prior restraint for the First Amendment is unconstitutional it is also unconstitutional when applied to the Second Amendment.
The classic example of falsely yelling fire in a crowded theater can be extended to illustrate.
Prior restraint would be requiring a gag on everyone as they enter the theater because someone might falsely yell fire.
The solution we have is to punish those that do, not gag everyone who enters the building.
“Gun free zones” are the same sort of thing. You must leave your gun behind because it is feared that you might use it in a criminal manner.
The solution must be that we punish those that injure innocent people and we must not attempt to prevent all people from using their gun at all.
One might claim that the risks are so high that prior restraint is justified as in drunk driving laws. There are two counters to that. 1) Driving is a privilege, not a specific enumerated right; and 2) Only in extremely rare cases does driving drunk have any benefit to society.
And even if we were to accept crime prevention is a valid means to protect innocent life we have problems. Does that mean to prevent rape we should castrate all the men? How about sewing all vaginas shut so women can’t engage in prostitution? Or removing eyes so people can’t engage in voyeurism? And to prove I’m not stuck on sex crimes, we can prevent fights by shackling the hands and feet of everyone. We can prevent drunk driving and public drunkenness by banning alcohol. Slander can be prevented by removing people’s vocal cords. Libel can be prevented by banning publication of, well, everything. And while we are at it we can prevent theft by abolishing private property.
Crime “prevention” is a very hot button for me. There is no limit to the evil that can be justified and/or enabled once you accept the premise that it is acceptable to prevent crime by restricting liberty.
The very name of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence demonstrates they are a very misguided and dangerous organization.
We are better than this.