SAF files amicus brief in Heller case

Via another email from Joe Waldron:

SAF FILES AMICUS BRIEF IN D.C. GUN BAN CASE BEFORE SUPREME COURT

BELLEVUE, WA – The Second Amendment Foundation has filed an amicus curiae brief in District of Columbia v Heller, the appeal of the landmark case that overturned the district’s handgun ban on the grounds that it unconstitutionally violates the Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms.

Written by attorney Nelson Lund at the George Mason University School of Law, the brief has already earned praise of veteran Second Amendment authority David Kopel, who noted in remarks on a popular Second Amendment website, “If you want to read a model Supreme Court brief, this is the brief to read.”

In the brief, Lund notes that the Second Amendment right of the people to keep and bear arms would remain even if the militia were disbanded.

“Our 48-page brief is tightly written, and it refutes the contentions by anti-gunners that the Second Amendment only protects some right of the states to maintain militias,” said SAF founder Alan Gottlieb. “The brief, which can be read on our website at www.saf.org <http://www.saf.org/dc.lawsuit/saf.heller.amicus.brief.pdf>, gets right to the heart of this case. We also note that the opposition arguments are absurd, and explain why.”

SAF’s brief further reminds the court that “In liberal theory, the most fundamental of all rights is the right of self defense.” It also notes that ‘the people’ referred to in the Second Amendment “has always been a much larger body of individuals than the militia.”

“Congress cannot abolish this constitutional right of the people by abolishing the militia,” notes Lund in the brief. “Neither can the right be limited to contexts in which its exercise contributes to the functioning of an organized militia that Congress is not even required to maintain.”

“While anti-gun extremists are beating drums about the downfall of civilization if the high court upholds the individual right,” Gottlieb stated, “we believe that the time has come for the Second Amendment to take its place as the Constitution’s insurance policy against tyranny and as our guardian against unjust laws that leave us defenseless against a growing criminal element.”

The Second Amendment Foundation is the nation’s oldest and largest tax-exempt education, research, publishing and legal action group focusing on the Constitutional right and heritage to privately own and possess firearms. Founded in 1974, The Foundation has grown to more than 600,000 members and supporters and conducts many programs designed to better inform the public about the consequences of gun control.

Update 8:20 AM: As outspoken as I am, I still wouldn’t have said this even though I think it is true (page 4):

United States v. Miller, 307 U.S. 174 (1939), suggests an interpretation that is different from petitioners’, and more facially plausible, namely that private citizens might have a right to possess weapons that are “part of the ordinary military equipment or [whose] use could contribute to the common defense.” Id. at 178. This test (which is not Miller’s holding) implies that American citizens have a right to possess at least those weapons that an unaided individual can “bear” and that “could contribute to the common defense.” Today this would include, at a minimum, the fully automatic rifles that are standard infantry issue, and probably also shoulder-fired rockets and grenades.

That should generate some PSH.

Update 8:40 AM: I like this (page 15):

The militia has always been a small subset of “the people” whose right to keep and bear arms is protected by the Second Amendment. James Madison, for example, estimated that the militia comprised about one-sixth of the population when the Constitution was adopted.

Most obviously, women were not part of the eighteenth century militia, nor are they included today (except for female volunteers in the National Guard). Women, however, have always been citizens and thus part of “the people.” See, e.g., Minor v. Happersett, 88 U.S. 162, 165-70 (1874) (although women did not have voting privileges, they were part of “the people” who ordained and established the Constitution, and they have always been citizens). Just as women have always been covered by the First Amendment’s “right of the people” to assemble and petition for redress of grievances, and the Fourth Amendment’s “right of the people” to be secure from unreasonable searches and seizures, women have always had the same Second Amendment rights as men.

Women have rights? Who would have guessed? Certainly not the D.C. anti-gun bigots.

Update 8:50 AM: From page 17 and 18 we have another great point:

The opposite form of noncongruence was also significant. Those who were physically unable to perform militia duties, as well as those aged 45 and older, still had all their political rights, including the right to vote. Besides the numerous men in these categories, many other citizens were legally exempted from militia duties.28 Thus, many men with full political rights were not subject to militia obligations. The noncongruence of the militia and the people points to another fatal defect in petitioners’ interpretation of the Second Amendment. Nothing in the Constitution purports to forbid Congress from exempting everyone from militia duties, as this Court has recognized. 29 It would be absurd to conclude that if Congress effectively abolished the militia by enacting such a universal exemption, the right of “the people” to keep and bear arms would thereby vanish. Congress cannot abolish this constitutional right of the people by abolishing the militia. Neither can the right be limited to contexts in which its exercise contributes to the functioning of an organized militia that Congress is not even required to maintain.

Update 9:05 AM: One should not retain the impression that SAF is arguing for the private ownership and use of machine guns and RGPs. They say:

[A] significant gap has developed between civilian and military small arms. Eighteenth century Americans commonly used the same arms for civilian and military purposes, but today’s infantry and organized militia are equipped with an array of highly lethal weaponry that civilians do not employ for self defense or other important lawful purposes. The Constitution does not require this Court to blind itself to that post-Miller reality, or to hold that the civilian population has a right to keep every weapon that the militia can expect to find useful if called to active duty.

Vote early, vote often

An email I received from Joe Waldron:

Oklahoma Republican Senator (and medical doctor) Tom Coburn is leading
the fight in the Senate to force the Dept of the Interior to open
National Parks to concealed carry. He’s running a poll on his web site
to demonstrate support for the idea.

Recall back in the 90s, the Park Service decided to arm some of their
rangers. It wasn’t because of the bears, it was because of the
two-legged predators who prey in our parks. Park Service rules should
be the same as National Forest rules: follow state law or simply allow
law-abiding citizens to carry.

V/R,
Joe Waldron

Middle of the page, lower center.

Should law abiding citizens be permitted to carry guns in national parks?

http://coburn.senate.gov/public/

Community policy

Paul Helmke of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence made this statement (and here) the other day:

These incidents all highlight the tensions involved when individuals argue that their “personal liberty” outweighs the rule of law and trumps community policy as decided by our governmental systems.

I presume this means we should just ignore the “personal liberty” issue if it is in conflict with community policy because of the tension it causes. Here are some other community policy issues decided by our governmental systems that I’m certain Helmke will agree with:


From Leavenworth, WA September 2, 2007. Notice the weapons prohibition on the right.


From St. Louis Missouri, August 13, 2006.

And here are thousands of more laws and regulations affecting the possession and use of firearms. “Community policies” that severely restrict and in some cases ban the exercise of a constitutionally guaranteed right. And according to Helmke’s organization all these thousands of laws are not enough. The “community policies” get a “failing score” in his world view.

I can’t help but note the similarities between the “community policies” above and those from not too many years ago. Then, as now, there were people who argued their personal liberties trumped “community policy” and it caused tension.

[Except where noted the following pictures are from About.com: African-American History.]

From http://www.cah.utexas.edu/ssspot/lesson_plans/lesson_10.php
From http://www.cah.utexas.edu/ssspot/lesson_plans/lesson_10.php

And here are some laws representing “community policy” Helmke should feel comfortable with.

Helmke and friends argue they just want to prevent violence. They argue they just want “common sense” laws. They argue no business should be forced to allow “those people” on their premises. They argue no colleges/university should be forced to allow “those people” on their campus. They argue “those people” should be fingerprinted and registered by the government.

Those arguments are the same as those of the Jim Crow era and are no more valid.

The other similarity that cannot be ignored–same political party has been claiming “community policy” should not be trumped by constitutionally guaranteed personal liberties. Democrats–the party of bigots.

Second Amendment Blog Bash

May 16-18 is the NRA convention and the Second Amendment Blog Bash in Louisville. Initially I said I would wait and think about it until April or so. Uncle told me to make my reservations then cancel later if I decided to because the hotels fill up quickly.

I procrastinated* for a month or so and Kevin started asking if I was going. I talked to Barb and we decided if she didn’t have to work that weekend we would go. I looked it up on the calendar and found out she had to work and couldn’t go. So told Kevin no and dropped it.

Last week Barb said she wanted some time with her sister in California. I prefer to avoid repressive regimes** so Barb suggested she would go to California sometime and and I could go to Louisville.

I just finished making my reservations. I got a non-smoking King bed at Red Roof for $55.50/night (Fri and Sat, Thu and Sun it’s $45/night). Most of our group is staying at the Executive Inn but it is full. Red Roof is about two miles from the Executive Inn and Convention Center so I rented a car. I’ll willing to give people rides if you want to stay at Red Roof or the Super 8 next door.

See you in Louisville!


* Xenia, this is not justification for you to indulge yourself in the bad habit you inherited from me.
** Peoples Republic of Kalifornia, not Barb’s sister.

Ray Chapman died

Jeff Cooper is gone and now so is Chapman.

[Heavy sigh]

Amicus Academics for the Second Amendment

Here is a draft of the brief in the Heller case from Dave Hardy. He reports the final will be probably be available tomorrow morning.

I haven’t read it yet either. I’m working on it…

Update 10:15 AM: I really like this point (page 5):

Petitioners’ position is that the Framers intended the Second Amendment to protect only possession of arms in connection with a well-regulated, i.e. government-organized, militia.

This presents us with an anomaly: an “individual right” that exists only if the government implements it by statue. Indeed, Petitioners argue that Respondent is himself outside the protection of the Second Amendment, because he is outside the Federal militia age range. […] Apparently this is a constitutional safeguard void where prohibited by law.

Update 10:35 AM: The “federalist mantra”, pages 21 and 22, is new to me. I like this. It so clearly shows the original intent.

Update 10:50 AM: Another thing that is new to me and that I really like (page 30): “Madison and the First Congress knew of the sensitivity of Americans on the arms issue. Calls for a right to arms had been voiced in five Conventions, compared to three calls for freedom of speech, and only one for a guarantee against double jeopardy.”

Update 2/11/2008: Here is the final version: 07-290_amicus_academicsforsecondamendment.pdf (232.09 KB)

Quote of the day–Coalition to Stop Gun Violence & the Educational Fund to Stop Gun Violence

An individual would need intimate knowledge of firearms and microstamping, plus the appropriate tools, in order to render the technology ineffective. These tools are certainly not “household items,” nor would the common street criminal be expected to have the knowledge necessary to defeat the technology.

[…]

One can also imagine the scene at a shooting range as criminals or gang members wander around and gather spent cartridge cases in bags. Conspicuous? One would certainly think so, and Americans should expect the owners of such ranges to engage in more responsible business practices.

Coalition to Stop Gun Violence & the Educational Fund to Stop Gun Violence
Microstamping Technology: Precise and Proven
[Another example of the anti-gun bigots being clueless about the real world. Apparently they haven’t heard of a Dremel tool or picking up your brass for reloading.–Joe]

My day with Ry

The pass was still closed (they are saying maybe by midnight one of them will be open) when I woke up this morning. I chatted with Barb for a few minutes and was reading a few blogs and posting my QOTD when I  got a text message from Ry:

We went to Beth’s and I finally got on the outside of one of their six egg omelets (they have two sizes, six and 12 egg, both come with all the hash browns you can eat).

I took a couple pictures of drawings on the wall:

From there we went to Kerry Park and took some pictures:

We left the park to visit Glazer’s.

At Glazer’s I bought a new camera bag and some minor camera accessories.

We then continued south to Cabela’s in Lacy. I have never been in a Cabela’s before and Ry had only been to the original store in the Midwest. The store was pretty amazing.

The most amazing thing happened there. Someone recognized our Boomershoot coats and my hat and said hi. He said he reads my blog!

I bought a bunch of strange flavored licorice (Piña Colada and blue raspberry among others) some bullets (not loaded ammo, just the Berger, .30 caliber, 210 grain VLD bullets). Wow! Those have gone up by a factor of two since I last bought some. But I figured they weren’t going to get any cheaper.

From way down south in Lacy we went way north to Monroe for the “Fun Show” as Ry likes to call them. Actually it was one of the WAC events. I walked by all the tables and didn’t really see anything of much interest.

We then headed out of town a little way to visit a friend of Ry’s that has a rifle range Ry has permission to use. “A couple hundred yards”, Ry said. Things were in the process of changing. Soon it will be over 850 yards! We stood around and talked with the owner and a friend of his for probably an hour. Maybe next spring when there is more daylight in a day and the longer range is available I might visit again with a long range rifle.

Next we ate dinner at the Old Country Buffet and I dropped him off back at his place and came back to my bunker.

That was a nice day. It was much better than moping around writing buggy code for The Borg like I had planned.  Thanks Ry.

But the bummer part of it was Barb had an extremely light day at work and would have been able to spend a lot of time with me at lunch and then gotten off work early to spend more time with me had I been able to make it over the pass and back to Moscow last night.

Rebate alternative

Lots of people are suggesting you buy a firearm if you get a rebate. There are numerous suggestions (partial listing):

I have another suggestion and I’ll even make the deal sweeter for you. Buy a rifle and ammo for Boomershoot and I’ll give you a free entry into Boomershoot 2009. Limit of one entry per rifle and no more than five free positions will be given away. You must purchase the rifle between now and June 1, 2008. The rifle and ammo must be capable of at least regularly connecting with the boomers at the 375 yard line. This means your ordinary hunting rifle, carbines, and pistol caliber rifles won’t qualify. Heavy barrel AR-15’s will. It should have at least a 4X (10X or greater is recommended) scope on it but I won’t be holding that against you because people have connected with red-dots and iron sights, it’s just not easy. Ammo is going to have to be match grade.

If you decide you want to participate in Joe’s evil plan then scan a copy of your receipts, send the scanned image and one or more pictures of you new rifle to me. First come, first serve, limit five prizes total.

Update: At the suggestion of Mopar in comments I’ve created a Boomershoot web page on rifle selection and threw in a little about ammo too. See also Choosing Optics (from 2001).

Quote of the day–Paul Helmke

As someone who had received death threats and been called a “dictator” because of other government issues, I knew that there were a lot of people who I did not want to see carrying guns into city meetings and the offices of city employees.

These incidents all highlight the tensions involved when individuals argue that their “personal liberty” outweighs the rule of law and trumps community policy as decided by our governmental systems.

Paul Helmke
“Suicide Shooters” – Going To “War” With Government
7:36 pm on February 8, 2008
[“Personal liberty” is trumped by community policy? Translating to more recognizable terms:

No wonder they have comments turned off on their blog.

H/T to Sebastian.–Joe]

I love sick humor

I don’t make cosmetic modifications to any of my guns. I’d make an exception for this one.

New pro-gun organization

Fellow IPSC and Steel shooter Mike Brown has started a new pro-gun organization–the Idaho Sport Shooters Alliance. I have been providing some technical help and he has been working with various legislators on gun issues important to Idaho residents and visitors. Number one on our list is to strengthen preemption. Read all about it on the website and blog.

The blogroll is reciprocal with pro-gun bloggers. Link to the ISSA blog and you’ll get linked to in return.

I wonder what they think of Huffman’s Rule of Firearms Law

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The US Goverment Court in D.C. did a Google search for “idaho firearms law” and ended up reading Huffman’s Rule of Firearms Law (number six in the Google results).

If they want to screw you they can and will

This is just one example of ATF abuse.

Not by the ATF, but I’ve been screwed both with and without malice. The bottom line is that you can’t completely defend against it, you can only lower your risk. Just don’t think you are immune or that the system is fair or justice will be served.

Quote of the day–Alan Gura, Robert A. Levy, Clark M. Neily III

Certainly Petitioners would not dispute Americans’ justification for revolting against Great Britain, an event that would not have been possible without the private ownership of firearms. And should our Nation someday suffer tyranny again, preservation of the right to keep and bear arms would enhance the people’s ability to act as militia in the manner practiced by the Framers.

Alan Gura
Robert A. Levy
Clark M. Neily III
February 4, 2008
RESPONDENT’S BRIEF
On Writ Of Certiorari To The United States Court Of Appeals For The District Of Columbia Circuit
[I just completed reading the entire thing. Lots of good stuff in it. At times I have been concerned Heller’s case would be made too narrow. That is no longer a concern. If anything this brief may be too broad because it will scare the white people. Not that I think that view is out of line with the original intent and the requirement for a free state, just that scaring the white people has it’s risks.

In this case the good guys played it as if this one is for all the marbles–which it is. Good luck to us all.–Joe]

One shot, one kill at 2100 meters

Ry reports on a new Army sniping record from Afghanistan by a Arfcom member. Awesome!

If you are wondering at all the amazing sniping shots coming out of Afghanistan you aren’t alone. I knew the high altitude would make a difference but I didn’t know exactly how much until I ran some numbers through Modern Ballistics. Below you see the numbers for the .50 BMG shooting a high end bullet/cartridge with a gun zeroed at sea level for 1000 yards at a target at 2300 yards (2100 meters) away for various altitudes. Notice the difference in expected group size as the altitudes goes from 0 to 10000 feet. Notice the windage difference. All those things help but still, the shooter and spotter had to be top notch and have a little luck as well. Assuming a target of 18 inches wide and 24 inches tall the altitude difference changed the odds of a hit from about 10% to 20% (not shown).

Good job SnakeaterM24!


Modern Ballistics Data Created: 02/04/08 09:24:30

Firearm: Default
Cartridge: .50 BMG HMI with 750 gr. A-MAX
Conditions: Standard Conditions.
Range: 2300
Altitude (ft):           0   1000   2000   3000   4000   5000   6000   7000   8000  10000


Drop (inches)         2263   2193   2129   2070   2016   1966   1920   1877   1837  1765
Height (inches)      -1609  -1539  -1475  -1416  -1362  -1313  -1267  -1224  -1184 -1112
Height (moa)        -66.84 -63.93 -61.26 -58.82 -56.58 -54.52 -52.61 -50.83 -49.16 -46.17
Height (mils)       -19.44 -18.60 -17.82 -17.11 -16.46 -15.86 -15.30 -14.79 -14.30 -13.43
Windage (inches)    258.89 244.21 230.39 217.47 205.43 194.19 183.72 173.94 164.81 148.27
Windage (moa)        10.75  10.14   9.57   9.03   8.53   8.06   7.63   7.22   6.84   6.16
Windage (mils)        3.13   2.95   2.78   2.63   2.48   2.35   2.22   2.10   1.99   1.79
Mid rng Ht (in)       78.8   79.2   79.5   79.8   80.2   80.5   80.8   81.1   81.4   81.9
Midrange (yds)       532.1  535.4  538.6  541.8  544.9  547.9  550.8  553.7  556.4  561.8
Zero (yds)          1000.0 1008.1 1016.0 1023.6 1031.2 1038.7 1045.9 1053.0 1060.0 1073.4
Near zero (yds)        5.3    5.3    5.3    5.3    5.3    5.3    5.3    5.3    5.3    5.3
P.B. Size (in)      157.66 158.35 159.03 159.69 160.33 160.95 161.56 162.15 162.72 163.82
P.B. Range (yds)      1182   1192   1202   1212   1222   1231   1240   1249   1258   1275
Velocity (ft/S)       1118   1157   1200   1245   1290   1335   1380   1425   1469   1553
Energy (ft-lbs)       2082   2229   2397   2581   2772   2970   3173   3382   3593   4018
PF                     839    868    900    934    968   1002   1035   1069   1102   1165
Time (S)             3.941  3.857  3.779  3.705  3.637  3.573  3.514  3.458  3.406  3.312
Group (inches)       81.20  77.10  73.25  69.68  66.37  63.31  60.47  58.02  55.56  51.17
Group (moa)           3.37   3.20   3.04   2.89   2.76   2.63   2.51   2.41   2.31   2.12
Group (mils)          0.98   0.93   0.88   0.84   0.80   0.76   0.73   0.70   0.67   0.62
Groups <= desired    0.00%  0.00%  0.00%  0.00%  0.00%  0.20%  0.40%  0.60%  1.20%  1.20%
1 grp of <= desired    0.0    0.0    0.0    0.0    0.0  500.0  250.0  166.7   83.3   83.3
—–
Constants:
M.V. (ft/S)        2794   M.V. SDev (fps)    10.0   B.C.               1.050 
Mass (grains)      750    Sight Ht (in)      1.50   Indicated SA (moa) 27.19 
SA Offset (moa)    0.00   Incline (deg)      0      Wind (mph)         10    
Wind error (mph)   2      Wind (deg.)        90     Temp (F)           59    
Barometer          29.53  Gravity            32.17  Shots per group    5     
Bullet acc. (moa)  0.50   Desired Grp (moa)  1.00   Group Simulations  500   
—-
Firearm name: Default
Firearm notes:
Cartridge name: .50 BMG HMI with 750 gr. A-MAX
Cartridge notes: BC is for Hornady A-Max.  MV is for max load of H50BMG.
Conditions name: Standard Conditions.
Conditions notes:

Poor role model delivers acceptable result

As a NRA Personal Protection Instructor I would strongly advise against using this store clerk as a role model. The robber appears to be leaving without harming anyone when she shoots him. This is generally illegal and I agree with this law. What I think happened was, as Joe D. suggested in email to the LPC email discussion list, it was an accidental discharge.

But on an strictly individual level I don’t have much sympathy for robbers, especially armed robbers. So, the bottom line is Barb and I laughed pretty hard at this guy getting “circumcised by a .38”:

This is what happens in places without guns–Case XXI

5 dead in strip mall shooting; gunman at large

CHICAGO, Illinois (CNN) — A gunman who shot and killed five women in a clothing store at a suburban Chicago strip mall Saturday remains at large, police said.

Authorities do not know the motive for the shooting at the Lane Bryant store, said Tinley Park police Sgt. T.J. Grady. The victims’ identities were not released.

Grady told reporters that a 911 call reporting the shooting came in at 10:44 a.m.

Shoppers in nearby stores described a tense situation after the shooting..

“Six police entered the store with their hands on their gun holsters,” said Tracy Caccavella, who was in a pet supply store across from the Lane Bryant store, according to The Associated Press..

The gunman was described as an African-American man, about 5 feet 9 inches tall and weighing between 230 and 260 pounds, Grady said. He was wearing a waist-length black winter coat, a black cap and dark jeans..

Authorities believe there was only one shooter, Grady said.

So, Mayor Daley, hows gun control working for you? Had the victims been able to carry their own defensive tools the headline might have been something like, “Thug shot dead after shooting one victim.”

Add these deaths to the list of charges for Daley’s trial on violation of 18 USC 242.

Conversions

Uncle discusses, “How do we win this political gun battle?”, asks for some help, and gets this suggestion. Then Sebastian offers this.

There is some good stuff there but there were a few items left out.

  • Join pro gun groups. The first group you should join is the NRA; even if you think they compromise too much. They are the 800 pound gorilla in the legislative kitchen and just the raw number of members causes the politicians to think twice before cooking up an anti-gun scheme. Other groups serve useful purposes and should be considered as well. Some of them are 501(c)(3) corporations and your donations are tax deductible.
  • Come out of the closet. In the early days of the gay rights movement there was a phrase, “Silence equals death!”. Getting people to come out in the open about being a gun owner helps the anti-gun people realize we aren’t red-necked, knuckle dragging, Neanderthals, who beat their wives, complain about the “coloreds” lusting after our women folk, and whose idea of a good time is shooting our empties while chugging beer from the tailgate of our pickups. It worked for the gays and it can work for us.
  • Closely related to the previous item is to speak up when someone says something hostile about gun ownership. Know your facts, know the anti-gun position fallacies, and don’t be afraid to share them when someone tries to push that failed agenda. Come up with sound-bites and don’t belabor things. People will “turn off” if your viewpoint takes more than about 30 seconds to explain. If you don’t have anything more directly to the point, ask Just One Question.
  • Invite the media to your pro-gun events and put announcements of your events in their “whats happening” section. Most media outlets are starved for material. If you are having a special event invite them to come, watch, and report on it. Write a decent news release (such that they can easily and quickly plagiarize it for their own use) and you increase the odds of attendance and positive coverage considerably. See, for example, Boomershoot coverage.
  • In the end game, which we may just be entering, we need to drive them to political extinction. You don’t get there by saying, “They have a valid point and everyone is entitled to their opinion.” We must make their position as socially uncomfortable as that of the KKK. See this post for how to do that.

Quote of the day–LawDog

Evil is not defeated by submitting to it. Evil is not defeated by running away from it; nor is evil defeated by ignoring it.

Evil is only defeated by fighting back.

You may, or may not, think you have the right to self-defence — and that is between you and your conscience. As a member of society — as a member of a community — you have the duty, the obligation, and the responsibility of self-defence.

LawDog
Meditations on Self Defence
January 27, 2008
[Via Tam. I’m in full agreement with this philosophy but not all people are.

I had an interesting discussion with my officemate last week. She is from India and a Jain. Just a quick refresher on that philosophy of life:

Nonviolence includes the concepts of vegetarianism. Jains are expected to be non-violent in thought, word, and deed, both toward humans and toward all other living beings, including their own selves. Jain monks and nuns walk barefoot and sweep the ground in front of them to avoid killing any insects or other tiny beings. Even though all life is considered sacred by the Jains, human life is deemed the highest form of life. For this reason, it is considered vital never to harm or upset any person.

They also don’t eat the roots of plants because of the increased chance of harming some organism that lives in the soil or the root. She does eat dairy products but not eggs.

Quite a contrast from me. I asked her, “If a lion was about to have you, or your children, for lunch does your religion require you to submit? The answer was that in the most pure form, yes, you are required to tolerate being lunch. But of course most people would not do that. They would fight back. Similar responses were obtained after gentle probes about taking antibiotics and defending against a human attacker. I dropped the subject. Maybe some other time when we have lots of time (this was to/from a lunch for our group) I’ll explore more. It seems so odd to me that their ideal and the admitted practical are so divergent. And that she is so positive about my explosive videos. Maybe it’s just the contrast from her live experience in a non-threatening form. Or maybe she is just being a Jain and doesn’t want to upset me by showing her disapproval.

[shrug]

Those are questions for another time–we have a product to ship…–Joe]