Ry and I have often spent hours talking until the sun rose on the “solving of the worlds problems”. Our conclusions have sometimes been uncomfortable and things we don’t really share in public. My “feed them to the hogs” approach is an extrapolation of some of those conclusions. My suggestion that Israel needs to do some very distasteful work now is also an extrapolation of those conclusions.

Kevin has elaborated, quoting numerous books and people, on how this is the American way. Along the way he explains why my wife, Barbara Scott, without hesitation and somewhat to my surprise supports the “feed them to the hogs” approach. My wife’s last name and her heritage is a significant part of that explanation. He also echos other private discussions I have had where we concluded that it would take another 9-11 type hit on our home soil before we would obtain the resolve to do what we need to do and that when that happens we will do what needs to be done no matter how distasteful a job it is.

Thank you Kevin.

Some stuff to think about:

A SIGNIFICANT minority of British Muslims believe they are at war with the rest of society, the largest poll of Muslims in this country suggests.

The Populus survey for The Times and ITV News has found that more than one in ten thinks that the men who carried out the London bombings of 7/7 should be regarded as “martyrs”. Sixteen per cent of British Muslims, equivalent to more than 150,000 adults, believe that while the attacks were wrong, the cause was right.

…

Assistant Met Commissioner Tariq Ghaffur, Britain’s most prominent Muslim policeman, said: “The poll shows that we do have a minority of people within our community who do effectively pose a danger.

“The tipping point between someone feeling anger and alienation and then engaging in the kind of atrocities we saw last July or being exploited by somebody who wants to commit a terrible act is very, very small.”

Update: More numbers from the UK. As Ry has told me, it’s too late for some parts of Europe. I hope it’s not too late for the UK. Emphasis is in the original:

A SHOCKING 400,000 British Muslims are sympathetic to “violent jihad around the world,” spy agency MI5 revealed last night.

The figure contains 1,200 fanatics who are actively engaged in an Islamic “holy war” at home or abroad.

…

Deputy Assistant Commissioner Clarke said his branch has SEVENTY current investigations on the go. These are in London, around Britain and across the world.

And there are SIXTY people awaiting trial in the UK for terrorism-related offences.

He added: “This is unprecedented and the flow of new cases shows no sign of abating — if anything it is accelerating.”

Mr Clarke added there were two other factors “even more alarming” than the gravity of allegations facing the defendants.

He said: “The first is the majority relate to the activities of British citizens against their fellow countrymen. Second is the extreme youth of some of those charged.”

Mr Clarke said police had disrupted three or possibly four attacks since the London bombings — a year ago on Friday.

He added that Britons were being kept in the dark about the true threat from al-Qaeda fanatics. He said: “It is a very, very concerning intelligence picture. It sometimes feels as if the public are not well informed about the reality of the threat.”

Israel gave them the land they wanted because so many people told them it would bring them peace. And how did the Palestinians react? See my post here.

And then how many days was it before that land was used for rocket attacks on Israel? I can’t find the information to confirm it but my recollection was it was less than a week.

And what was the stated objective of party elected to power in the most recent election? To wipe Israeli off the map.

It was my opinion when Israel gave the land back that the world would then see, beyond any doubt, what Israel was dealing with. That people would realize the culture of these people must be destroyed if we are to have any hope of peace in the mid-east. I was partially wrong. As usual I made the mistake of believing people would think rationally. At least among rational people who have studied the problem there is no doubt about what has to be done. Let me “spell it out for you”.

Israel has tried so many “diplomatic solutions” over the decades that it would take weeks to enumerate them and their failures due to Palestinian persistence in the eradication of Israel. If the Palestinian people said they just wanted to be left alone and to “live and let live” I would be opposed the destruction of their infrastructure–but they haven’t. On the whole, they have declared a war to the death with the Israel. Those that don’t agree with that agenda should leave while Israel gives the remainder what they have been demanding. Israel has no other viable options. If they could be contained while the world “corrupted” their youth and “incorruptible” elders died off I would suggest a 40 year plan to welcome them into civilized society.  But the Palestinians are just like Ted Bundy, he either could not or would not stop killing and he had escaped from jail twice (or was it three times?). He would be a threat to people as long as he lived. It’s distasteful, it’s horrible, and it will haunt many of us for the rest of our lives. But it’s the best of all the bad alternatives. I say to Israel, I’m sorry the job falls to you, but you have moral authority in this case to do what needs to be done. Just make it quick and be done with it. I’ll be looking the other way as the tears roll down my cheeks.

Some of the first evidence in the Miami Muslims case is coming out. I’m sure bringing down the tallest building in the U.S. would get the attention of neighbors:

A man accused of leading a group that authorities said was plotting to blow up the Sears Tower wanted to create a distraction so he could free Muslim prisoners at a nearby jail, a prosecutor said Friday.

Narseal Batiste, 32, who is accused of leading the group, was recorded as he spoke to an FBI informant who was posing as an al-Qaida operative, said Assistant U.S. Attorney Jacqueline Arango.

He said that his plan was to blow up the Sears Tower, distract law enforcement and break into a nearby jail to set his “Muslim brothers” free, Arango said.

The video tape is going to be tough to refute:

During a video clip from surveillance footage played by the prosecution, Batiste said that he wanted to start “a real ground war.” Arango said Baptiste likened bin Laden to “an angel” at another meeting.

My impression of these guys is that they were sincere in their stated desire to kill Americans but they were incompetent. But it could be the FBI just wants the general public to believe they were incompetent. That would give other terrorists reason to be less cautious. The desired mindset might be, “Those bozos got caught because they were stupid.  We just need to be smarter and we will be fine.”  Rather than, “We need to be exceedingly careful. Those Miami dudes were no dummies and still got caught.”

It’s hard to say.

It doesn’t give me a lot of confidence that the first terror cell caught, at least publicly, in a long time appears to be incompetent. It may mean that there are lots of others operating out there that are competent and just aren’t being detected by our law enforcement people.

The main topic of this article is Osama bin Laden grieving over the death of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. I’m so sad for him–I wish someone would just put him out of his misery. We do have some more 500 pound bombs, right? Even a properly placed 168 grain bullet would end his suffering.

But that’s not the most interesting point in the article to me.  This is interesting:

“I say to Bush, you should deliver the body (of al-Zarqawi) to his family, and don’t be too happy. Our flag hasn’t fallen, thanks be to God. It has passed from one lion to another lion in Islam,” the message in Arabic says, according to a translation by Octavia Nasr, CNN’s senior editor for Arab affairs.

“We will continue, God willing, to fight you and your allies everywhere, in Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia and Sudan, until we drain your money and kill your men and send you home defeated, God willing, as we defeated you before, thanks to God, in Somalia.”

Notice that you can thank Bill Clinton for contributing to this war because of what he did in Somalia.  He encouraged the Muslim extremists by tucked his tail between his legs and running away.

But this is the most interesting:

The U.S. government has never given a public accounting of what happened to al-Zarqawi’s body after the autopsy.

Perhaps the pig hasn’t finished digesting him yet so we can send the remains home.

So you think the New York Times are opposed to our war against terrorists? Do you think they are giving aid and comfort to the enemy?

And your point is?

It’s what they do:

Even after the failed coup attempt of July 20, 1944, the New York Times commented reproachfully that the conspirators had plotted for an entire year “to kidnap or kill the head of the German state and commander in chief of the Army,” something one would not “normally expect within an officers’ corps and a civilized government.

From Plotting Hitler’s Death: The Story of the German Resistance by Joachim Fest page 165.

Update: Answering questions about the context–the point of that section of the book was that the German resistance against Hitler was unable to even get lip service support. This wasn’t limited to just the NYT. It was sort of like they viewed an uprising by the people of Germany to be “unsporting conduct” or something. Here is the additional context from the book (“these Germans” refers to the people plotting to kill and/or overthrow Hitler):

Most of the politicians and military leaders who they unsuccessfully courted in London, The Hague, and Washington still believed, however, that these Germans were committing “treason” and therefore regarded them with contempt. There was no appreciation of the fact that the opponents of the Nazi regime felt guided by new principles and laws whose legitimacy did not end at national borders. Even after the failed coup…

There is nothing more in the book to shed light on what the intent of the NYT was. Was it they wanted really wanted Germany to win? Were they opposed “on principle” to war and believed there would be less fighting/killing if Hitler were left in power even if he was “less than perfect”?  Or was it some sort of “honor” thing the German resistance had violated? A trip into the archives for the original NYT is probably the only way to clarify it further.

Off topic: Welcome to all the visitors brought here by the post on The Anti-Idiotarian Rottweiler.  I received more visits in one day for this one post than I normally receive for everything in a week. You might also be interested Boomershoot (fun with guns and explosives).

Thanks to Ry for pointing this out.

Some things don’t change even in over a 100 years. It’s a bit long but it contains background and support for this gem:

And this incapacity for independent action, this moral stupidity, this infirmity of the will, this unwillingness to cheerfully catch hold and lift, are the things that put pure Socialism so far into the future. If men will not act for themselves, what will they do when the benefit of their effort is for all? A first-mate with knotted club seems necessary; and the dread of getting “the bounce” Saturday night, holds many a worker to his place.

Socialism and communism are doomed to failure because of this fatal flaw in human nature. All successful organizations must address reality and human nature is part of reality. Whether it’s socialists, communists, or bigoted anti-gun nuts, they all live in a dream world where human nature is what they wish it to be rather than what it is.

I just finished listening to a book on tape, Hannibal: One Man Against Rome, and I can’t help but wonder if some of the methods the Romans used wouldn’t be effective in dealing with the “religion of peace” that does things like this:

• 4 Russian hostages executed in Iraq (three beheadings and one shooting, video available if you want it)
• ‘Driller killers’ spread a new horror in Iraq (toture and killing by “The Supreme Council for Islamic Revolution in Iraq”)
• Horror show Iraq’s descent (more torture including using electric drills on the eyes and skulls of children)

After all the “religion of peace” appears to be stuck hundreds of years in the past.  Perhaps some ancient methods for dealing with insurrections would be effective.