Training with Todd Jarrett

If you listened to the Gun Nuts on August 19 you would have heard me wonder how Jarrett was going to handle the wide range of shooting ability in the participants when we showed up on August 22. I believe I had the most training going in. A partial list of my firearms training:



Most of the others had not had any formal training. Other students who have taken courses from multiple schools have wisely told me that when attending a new class you should approach the class with an open mind and if you can take just one good thing away then the class was worthwhile.


Jarrett did a great job of dealing with the disparity. He obviously had to get everyone up to speed with the fundamentals such as grip, trigger control, and sight alignment. He did this on the first day mostly in the classroom. On the second day he did something everyone was impressed with. He made marks on our hands that helped us get the grip right:



Robb Allen’s hands with the Para USA LDA .45 in full recoil. Notice the smoke leaving the ejection port?


Notice the mark on Robb’s right thumb just below the joint? There is a matching mark on his left hand. These two marks line up when he was holding the gun properly. It’s difficult to see but there is also a mark on his right hand directly behind the beaver tail safety underneath the slide. This mark should be directly in line with the long axis of the gun and the axis of the shooters arm.


When I saw what Jarrett was doing with these marks little shivers went through me. This was a brilliant teaching aid. I was the next to the last person to get the marks and he told me I was the only person to already have the proper grip. John D. to my left and the last person also got it right. I had made a very slight modification to my normal grip when I showed it to him. I had to shift my right hand just a little to get the proper alignment. The single stack gun is much narrower than what I am used to and once I got the marks on my hands I began practicing my draw making sure that the lines matched up even when I was drawing at full speed.


The draw was one of the areas where Jarrett cut some corners on the training. He talked about it some but didn’t have us do any drills specifically working on the draw. He focused on doing a safe draw but not much on speed. This probably was a wise thing considering the other things that were going to be a lot more fun and new to the more advance shooters but in terms of self-defense shooting this probably was more important.


We shot at 8″ plate racks from about 15′ as we were pushed to shoot faster and faster. This was very frustrating for me because my plates would go down hard enough they would bounce back up. Some plates I put down three times only to have them remain standing.


We did some 25 yard slow fire shooting to verify our trigger control and zeros. On an silhouette target my gun was giving me head shots when I aimed at the chest. Jarrett verified it did the same for him and adjusted the sights for me.


Our range had the capability to give us moving targets:



Looking carefully on the left you can see the remotely reset steel plates then the turning targets. The two rails on the right are for targets that, from the shooters perspective move horizontally left and right. All of these were utilized.


This was nearly all new to me. In competition I have shot at moving targets and moved while shooting but I have had near zero formal training on it.


We shot at the turners. We were given two seconds to empty our eight round magazines into silhouette targets.


We shot over, around and through barricades:



Me, shooting at a steel plates over a barricade. Photo by JR.
Yes, I was taking advantage of my height when everyone else had to use two different shooting positions to get access to the same targets.



Me, supervised by Todd Jarrett, shooting around a barricade. Photo by JR.


We shot on the move. We advanced on the targets while shooting (photo by JR):



We shot at horizontally moving plates while standing still. We shot at plate racks while we were moving horizontal.


We shot at horizontally moving plates while we were moving both left to right and right to left.


The things I took away from this was:



  1. Follow through on your shots with the moving targets. Keep the gun pointed at the target even after you fire. The gun just happens to go bang every once in a while as you are pointing it. It got so I could hit the moving targets almost as fast as the stationary targets.
  2. When you are moving you need to keep your knees bent to keep yourself level.
  3. Walk like you are on a tight rope or balance beam. This keeps you from rocking from side to side as you walk.


Me, supervised by Todd Jarrett, shooting at a steel plate while advancing. Photo by JR.


See also this video from Sebastian:





We did some rapid fire from the hip shooting at a steel plate about 18″x24″ in size from just a few feet away from us. The point was to be able to get the gun on target in a close quarters situation. Below you can see Tamara, having just completed the drill, getting a little further instruction from Jarrett on the topic:




We then did some plate shooting from 35 yards. Here is Kevin hammering the plates (and having them bounce back up) at distance. 



One thing that I found as a glaring omission was learning to reload quickly. It was appropriate given the time constraints and disparate training of the students but I was hoping for some “fine tuning” of my reloads.


My biggest surprise was how useful laser sights are for training. I’m not convinced they are particular useful for the shooter as he or she is actually shooting but as an instructor or by video taping as the student is shooting a lot can be learned and taught. I was previously of the opinion the most useful aspect of them was as a toy for dogs and cats. One small example is to have the student shoot rapidly and watch the path of the laser on the target. It should track nearly straight up and down without overshooting the point of aim. Similar lessons can be learned and taught in transitioning from one target to another.


The most fun was the shoot house. I already have a full post on that and won’t go into that again except to say that I disagree with Kevin with what was happening while we were taking turns going through. Kevin is of the opinion ninjas from Gunsite Ranch were spying on us. I think this was actually a vulture from the Brady Campaign hoping for some blood to be spilled:


Frangible ammo from International Cartridge Corporation

At Blackwater last weekend we used ammo supplied by International Cartridge Corporation.


The ammo worked great. I have zero complaints about the performance of the ammo. Accuracy was excellent. We fired the ammo about five or ten feet from steel plates (that is what Tam was doing here) with only a hint of dust coming back when the wind was right. It is made of sintered copper and tin so it is non-toxic. Because there is no jacket the bullets can be made very accurate. The major factor in bullet accuracy is the jacket being of different thicknesses on one side than another. This puts the geometric center of the bullet at a different point from the center of gravity. As the bullet traverses the barrel the bullet rotates about its geometric center. As it exits it rotates about it’s center of gravity. If the two centers are not the same it will “jump” a little to one side as it makes the transition. This will cause the bullet to go in a slightly different direction than that which the barrel was pointed. Hence the homogeneous, sintered, bullet can be made more accurate.


The bullets are also made with a lubricant for release from the mold during the manufacturing process. This lubricant is part of the structure of the bullet and is still present when the bullet is fired. Along with the tighter diameter tolerances (about 0.0005″) the guns shooting these bullets run much cooler. Todd Jarrett told us of full auto guns having barrels cool enough to hold the gun by after emptying a complete magazine loaded with this type of ammo.


The ammo rep on-site with us said the price was about the same as hollow point ammo. He also said the bullets were not available for reloading. Something about them being too fragile and cracking in reloading presses. This seems a little odd. They didn’t crack when we dropped them on the gravel in the shooting bays. They didn’t crack when we dropped them on the concrete. The didn’t crack when they were fired.


I also found where they are sold for reloading. From their dealer page click on http://www.frangiblebullets.com/. There you can find prices, loading data, and lots of other interesting information.


One thing you will notice about the bullets is they are much lighter than the same caliber lead bullets. This is because the materials used, copper and tin, have a lower density than lead. They can, and are, loaded to higher velocities and can reach IPSC major power factor in .45 ACP, 10mm, and probably .38 Super. Minor PF can apparently be reached with 9mm. .40 S&W appears to be unable to reach major PF.


If my blood levels of lead were on the high end of normal I would probably buy the bullets and reload them in my pistols for practice and competition. As it is my lead levels are on the low end of normal and lead bullets are cheaper (in .40 S&W about $0.18 versus $0.11). And in any case I don’t think I would use the bullets for self-defense. I’m inclined to believe that heavy, deep penetrating bullets are better fight stoppers than light bullets that leave a lot of fragments behind upon entry.


Another reason I would be disinclined to use the light bullets is the recoil. For the same bullet momentum (Power Factor in USPSA terminology) you get more recoil. This is because more powder is used with the light bullets and the high velocity powder exiting the barrel adds to the total recoil. The recoil is also spread over a longer period of time with the slower moving bullet. Hence a light fast bullet causes a very “snappy” recoil which tends to be uncomfortable. I noticed this with the .45 gun I was shooting over the weekend. The recoil was much different than what I expected from a .45. I asked what the bullet velocity was on the 155 grain bullets we were shooting. About 1150 fps I was told. Normal .45 ACP velocities are in the range of about 750 to 925 fps and you feel more of a “push” than the “slap” I was feeling.


Still the lead free frangible bullets have their place. I could see indoor ranges requiring lead free bullets or steel plate competitions requiring frangible bullets. I remember taking a pistol class once and the instructor telling us that for every class they usually have, on the average, one injury from the back splatter from the steel targets. They had about 10 students per class and were firing about 1000 rounds each on steel so there were a lot of bullets going down range and eventually the odds would catch up with someone. The injuries were always minor and required nothing more serious than a Band-Aid but still the injuries did occur. Wrap around eye protection and either directly facing the targets or facing away was required. Those concerns would be eliminated with ICC’s frangible ammo.

Gun Nuts talk about Para USA/Blackwater

Tonight the Gun Nuts will have another show on the events from this weekend. I don’t know for certain who will be on. I was invited again but thought I would just listen and let other people talk this time. The live show starts at 2300 Eastern, 2000 Pacific time.


Para USA, Blackwater USA, Blackhawk, International Cartridge Company, and Crimson Trace will probably all be topics of discussion and will all get well deserved praise.

Quote of the day–David Hardy

Woke up this morning in Arlington VA (I fly back to AZ this afternoon), opened the motel room door, and this was the view.


The firemen say a room on the next floor burned up. After two trips thru the shoot house, this really isn’t that exciting. Hmmm, a motel fire. Be careful not to trip over the hoses while getting some coffee to wake up.



David Hardy
August 26, 2008 4:46 AM PST

The shoot house

I’ve done a lot of USPSA shooting but never anything in a 360 degree shoot house with a dozen rooms, real doors, and real hallways in it. As various people said in various ways during our visit to Blackwater “This place is made of awesome.”


The walls were made of plywood covered 2x4s with steel plating on the outside walls to contain the bullets. The USPSA targets we used were mounted on bullet traps. We used frangible ammo from International Cartridge Corporation which worked extremely well (Sebastian has more on the ammo).


There were buildings in various configurations including one with the building named “R U Ready High School”. We used range T7 that could have been an office building or a home.


In front of our building were walls and a gate that could be used for breaching exercises.




They have the repair materials for the breaching practice walls nearby.



The shoot house is a metal roof with partial walls coming down from the eaves to about 10 feet above the ground. The interior with the walls, doors, hallways, targets, etc. has a smaller footprint and has about eight foot walls. Some shoot houses had catwalks overhead. T7 did not have the catwalk and the video guy had to use a ladder to peak over the walls and get his footage.


Just 100 feet or so from our shoot house was this hulk. Apparently used a different type of exercise.




This sticker was on the inside of the plane wreckage.


The white board on the front of the building shows this is really a classroom not just a place for fun. Rob Allen is supposed to report on what we saw on the white board. You won’t want to miss that post.



More pictures, and drooling, about the shoot house is available here.


Because we could only run one person at a time through the shoot house we spent a lot of time standing around talking. Here Caleb* explains how things should be done to the rest of us.


 



This was also the place where Caleb and I settled our bet. Originally I had suggested an El Presidenta and Caleb agreed. But it was clear it was going to be a hassle to find and set up a range for that so we agreed to use the shoot house course since that was to be timed and a winner determined anyway. I was concerned about the 9mm versus .45 aspect which the USPSA rules for the El Presidenta would have taken into account. But we were using USPSA targets here and I figured we could use the time and the hits and again use USPSA scoring and have the 9mm versus .45 disadvantage compensated for. But then the scoring was announced by Todd to be merely time with a miss counting as a three second penalty and a hit on a hostage to be a five second penalty. This put me at a disadvantage. I was shooting a high recoil gun with a Light Double Action trigger with a bug that had been haunting me anytime I tried to shoot fast versus Caleb shooting a light recoil gun with a single action trigger which was working well for him.


Caleb was the second person through the shoot house and what sounded to me like an okay time. Not great but not bad. 24 rounds in most types of environment should be completed in about that many seconds for an average IPSC shooter. But with the eight round magazines, numerous doors to open, and it being a surprise stage it should have taken me about 30 to 35 seconds. Caleb did it in about 46.3 (I forget the exact number on the tenths) but he hit a hostage which, according to the rules, gave him a 51.3. All I had to do, in my mind, was not make any mistakes. I went through immediately after Caleb and had at least three malfunctions of various types with the gun. I also ran down a hallway that was a dead end and had to back up to go the proper way. I made a bunch of mistakes but still turned in a time of 49.89. Good enough to win but not anything to be proud of. Caleb now owes me free ammo for life**.



As reported earlier Caleb only cried for a little while***. The brown paster on his chest is his “badge” for shooting a hostage.





* I’m kidding. Caleb was not the least bit arrogant or a braggart. I think we both knew shortly after the shooting started on Friday that it was going to be a close match.


**  Just kidding, it’s two hundred rounds of 180 grain FMJ .40 S&W.


*** Again, I’m kidding. The “crying” incident was two days earlier. I don’t know how I managed to get the above picture. I just took so many pictures that one of them “fell into my lap” for exploitation.

The bet has been settled

I won the bet with Caleb today. Caleb reported it live from the range. I won only because I made fewer mistakes than he did. In a second run through the house with a different configuration I again beat him by a slim margin because I made slightly fewer errors than he did. In both runs through others beat us. My second run was good enough for second place and I won a set of Crimson Trace laser sights.

Quote of the day–Todd Jarrett

You have the potential to be a world class shooter.


Todd Jarrett
August 22, 2008
To me while on the Blackwater range. He was making a joke for the video being made for Michael Bane’s television show.

Pictures from day two at Blackwater


Due to requests from the Tamara Fan Club Unwashed Masses (see the comments) the pictures are heavy on Tamara.


I also took the first picture on JR’s post.


Caleb has pictures up too.



The view from in front of the hotel a little after 7:00 AM this morning.



Soybeans in the background.




Almost ready for the trip to breakfast.



Our guns have lasers in the grips by Crimson Trace and they have people here shooting with us.



Rob showing off our transportation while on site.



Kevin Baker.



Say Uncle.



Dave Hardy.



John D.


JR.



Tamara.



Kerby Smith is the guy behind this from Para USA side.



Todd was able to make an improvement in Robb’s shooting. Say Uncle in the background.



Tamara.



Rob Allen.



Caleb is going to be a formable opponent for our modified bet.



No. Tam is not pissed and about to try shooting Todd with an empty gun.



Don Gwinn and Michael Bane.



Crimson Trace rep, Sebastian, and Say Uncle.



Say Uncle getting a lesson on cleaning a 1911 gun from Todd Jarrett.



Kevin hitting 8″ plates at 35 yards.

Cool! But it has a Pri 0 bug

 

 

This is the gun (with part of the serial number obscured) I have been shooting:

 

 

Custom guns just for us knuckle dragging gun bloggers! How cool is that?

 

I had some problems yesterday and finally figured out what was going on (with a simpler repro of the problem by JR). If the gun cycles, you let up on the trigger to the first click, squeeze (it will hit a hard stop without firing), then let up until the next click, then pull the gun will lock up. You have to manually cycle the slide (roughly the equivalent to a computer reboot) to recover. I mentioned this to Kerby, the Para USA guy, and he said, “Yes. It will do that. Don’t do that. After the gun cycles move you finger until the nail touches the front of the trigger guard then do your pull.” He went on to explain that this is because I’ve been shooting single action guns for a long time. Others that shoot double action or Glock type actions before using a Light Double Action (which this is) don’t have this problem.

 

At Microsoft we call a bug that is easily reached and causes the program to crash a Priority 0 bug. Priority 0 bugs must be fixed before the product is shipped. Telling the customer, “Don’t do that” isn’t really an option for a released product.

 

Yesterday I had many failures to feed as well. After oiling the gun this morning those problems went away until very late in the day when the gun got dirty again. And after adapting my shooting technique to avoid the system lock up (and the required reboot) I did pretty well. On the last big “stage” at the end of the day with shooting on the move, shooting movers, and plates racks I had the best run of anyone (possibly even Todd who fumbled some reloads and had other problems) until Caleb shot the stage with a borrowed gun that had 18 round magazines. The rest of us used eight round magazines and I required five magazines to complete the stage.

 

At the end of the day several of us, including me, were able to hit the eight (?) inch plates at 35 yards half the time or better.

 

I have to conclude the gun works well as long as you don’t run into that one bug.

 

Draw your own conclusions as to whether the gun (your version would look like this) is for you.

Quote of the day–Say Uncle

I learned more in the last three hours than I have since I’ve been shooting.


Say Uncle
August 22, 2008
Referring to instruction from Todd Jarrett while being taped for Michael Bane’s television show.
[I had told him, several times, that professional instruction would make a big difference. Not that he ever disagreed with me. But it’s nice to hear him confirm what I had been saying. This is not to say that his shooting was particularly bad. Just that you learn a lot from someone who knows what they are doing and how to teach.–Joe]

Para USA/Blackhawk/Blackwater pictures


You can get a better hour by hour update on my Twitter account but here are some pictures:



Leaving the Norfolk hotel to get on the Blackhawk bus.



This is the Blackhawk bus. It’s very nice inside.



Gun bloggers picking up their holsters, shirts, belts, and other super tactical stuff at Blackhawk headquarters. They have some very cool stuff.



Todd Jarrett doing some classroom stuff.



This is not something you want to see. The muzzle of Todd Jarrett’s gun.



Say Uncle gets his two minutes of fame with Todd Jarrett, Michael Bane, and video crew. Sebastian and I also got a couple minutes with them.



End of the shooting for the day and we walked from the cafeteria to the Blackwater hotel.



Despite us bloggers being no smarter than chimps everyone has been treating us like royalty. This has been an awesome day!

Old age and treachery

Currently the vote is 81% to 19% for me to win the bet between Caleb and I. That must because they expect the “old age and treachery” cliché to have a grain of truth. I must set the record straight on a few items.


There is no truth to the suspicion I arranged a false positive on the explosive sniffer as he went through TSA security yesterday.


There is no truth to the suspicion I poisoned him this morning so he couldn’t eat.


It is true that I shot him while on the range at Blackwater (splatter from the steel).


Update: Bitter created a logo for the poll on who is going to win the bet:


Quote of the day–Tamara K.

This is like Disneyland for guns.


Tamera K.
August 22, 2008
While touring Blackwater.
[A few hours later Caleb said, “This is like Disneyland for gun nuts.” I asked if he had heard Tamara say something similar earlier. He had not. I think Sebastian also said something similar while on camera with Michael Bane. It’s really can’t be adequately described in less that 1000 words and/or several dozen pictures. Being less articulate I just say, “Awesome”.–Joe]

I’ll sleep when I’m dead

Uncle and I talked and he sent the shuttle out to pick me up before I even picked up my luggage in Norfolk. I ran into Kevin Baker before I even checked in. I met up with SebastianRob Allen, Caleb, JR, Uncle, and Kevin in the bar across the parking lot. We talked for an hour or so and Tam showed up. About 11:00 or so Rob was crashing and that broke up the bar party.


Read (almost) everyone’s blog posting of people here on one web page.


Sebastian invited us back to his suite where Uncle, a local guy (a reader of Say Uncle) and I all talked until after 2:00 AM.


The bus leaves for Blackwater at 9:00 AM.

New shooter report

One of the more interesting things about working at Microsoft is the people I meet from all over the world. My officemate is from India, our PM is from Pakistan, my boss is from Sri Lanka, the new guy is from Australia, and a couple others are from Canada. We work with people in the bay area, China, India, and Dublin.


The guy from Pakistan is forbidden by his Entry Visa from touching weapons or explosives while in the U.S. and has to get “his fix” when he goes back to Pakistan once a year or so. A new member of the team in Dublin is here this week and I took him to the range last night. He had a little bit of experience with shotguns and clay pigeons but had never touched a handgun.


I started him out dry firing my STI then he shot a semi-auto .22LR pistol and then a .22 revolver. After he had gone through a couple hundred rounds I asked if he wanted to try the STI (chambered in .40 S&W). He did. I put just one round in it and he carefully aimed and fired. I could tell by the sounds he made and the expression on his face that it was a bit more than what he expected. I asked if he wanted to try another. There was some hesitation but he agreed. The second round didn’t improve his attitude. He wanted to see me shoot it. I emptied a 16-round magazine in about half that many seconds with a group of about four inches at 15 feet. I did another five rounds at a much slower rate into a group about half that size.


If offered him the chance to shoot again and he chose the .22 semi-auto. We took turns shooting in the lane. I with the .40 and he with the .22. I finished up one box of .40 ammo and purchased another (I had accidentally left my handloads back at my bunker). The second box was a different brand and bullet weight and had a little less recoil. I offered him the .40 again and he fired about three or four rounds before saying he had enough. This is more tolerance for recoil than the previous guy from the U.K. I took to the range about 10 years ago.


I kept thinking there might be an application for the “9mm Europellet”.

On my way

I’m waiting to board at SEATAC. You can follow my flight progress for the first leg to St. Louis here. The second leg to Norfolk is here.


Tomorrow I’ll be at Blackwater enjoying the company of several other gun bloggers and the hospatilty of Para USA.


I’m really looking forward to settling the bet with Caleb.


Update: I forgot to mention I plan to update Twitter frequently during this trip.

The Works

The History Channel recently started running a program entitled, “The Works”.  The host, Daniel Wilson, has a PHD in “Robotics”.  I didn’t know you could get a PHD in robotics, thus becoming what, a “roboticist” or a “robotologist”?  I’d have thought you’d need three degrees for that– mechanical engineering, electrical engineering, and computer science, but I’m just a layman.  For all I know, there are degree programs for “Vending Machine Technology” too, you know, for those who don’t quite feel up to the work load associated with a major in “Roboticism”.


He did an episode on guns, which was pretty good.  It did however show an image of Superman flying “faster than a speeding bullet”, and as per the cliché, Superman was shown flying right next to a fully assembled, metallic pistol cartridge.  I’m not sure how one is meant to propel an entire cartridge through the air at the velocity of a speeding pistol bullet (which the host correctly described as about a thousand feet per second) but I’m sure that where there’s a will, there’s a way, especially if you have a PHD in robotics.


Anyway, the program was interesting.  Though the host talked down to us a little more than required, IMO, I can forgive him– he’s young.  He obviously had a lot of fun with the various guns too, and wasn’t afraid to show it.


Check out “The Works” on THC if you have the time.  I think you’ll like it.  Oh and;


Congratulations, Dr. Wilson.  Keep up the good works.

Gun Nuts, Para weekend, the bet

Rob and I had a nice chat with Caleb and Bonnie on Gun Nuts at Blog Talk Radio last night.


We mostly talked about the Para sponsored weekend at Blackwater. But we touched on Boomershoot just a little bit too.


We did talk about the bet between Caleb and I about who is the better shooter and how that bet came about. We didn’t get the stakes of the bet nailed down but that may have been settled today in the comments of his post about our discussion last night. Rob and Bonnie have their own posts about last nights show too.


To answer the question that keeps coming up–the bet came about in the following email thread:



From: Say Uncle
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 6:40 AM
To: Sebastian; Ahab; Bitter Bitch; Deleted @progunprogressive.com; Joe Huffman
Subject: My dad can beat up your dad


 


http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2008/07/09/chicks-and-guns-17/#comment-203007


 


From: Joe Huffman
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 9:27 AM
To: Say Uncle; Sebastain; Aha’; Bitter Bitch; Deleted @progunprogressive.com
Subject: RE: My dad can beat up your dad


 


Almost for certain he can.


 


My dad is almost 85 years old and not thinking too clearly anymore.


 


How about between the two of us we see who shoots the best at summer camp? Aren’t you the betting type?


 


J


 


-joe-



From: Say Uncle
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 9:36 AM
To: Joe Huffman
Cc: Sebastian; Ahab; Bitter Bitch; Deleted @progunprogressive.com
Subject: Re: My dad can beat up your dad


 


I am but I only bet on things in which I have a positive expectation. In this case, I’m guessing I don’t have such an expectation 😉

In fact, due to my recent lack of time at the range, I’ll put me at dead last!


From: Ahab
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 9:54 AM
To: Say Uncle; Joe Huffman; Sebastian; Bitter Bitch; Deleted @progunprogressive.com
Subject: Re: My dad can beat up your dad


 


I’ll take that bet, joe


 


From: Joe Huffman
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 10:02 AM
To: ‘Ahab’; ‘Say Uncle’; Sebastian; ‘Bitter Bitch’; Deleted @progunprogressive.com’
Subject: RE: My dad can beat up your dad


 


Name your terms and I’ll think about it.


 


 


-joe-


 


From: Ahab
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 10:13 AM
To: Joe Huffman
Cc: Say Uncle; Sebastian; Bitter Bitch; Deleted @progunprogressive.com
Subject: Re: My dad can beat up your dad


 


Six pack of the winner’s favorite beer?  Bottle of the winner’s favorite booze, not to exceed, oh, I don’t know…$30 bucks?


From: Joe Huffman
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 10:51 AM
To: ‘Ahab’
Cc: ‘Say Uncle’; Sebastian; ‘Bitter Bitch’; Deleted @progunprogressive.com’
Subject: RE: My dad can beat up your dad


 


The number of beers I have had in my lifetime can be counted on my fingers (base ten, not base two). Beyond that the last drink of alcohol I had was the glass of wine at the NRA convention dinner. That said, because of my sweet tooth there is no such thing as something “too sweet” and I like ice wine.


 


But more important to me is how are we going to determine the winner? And what sort of handicap are you giving me? I’m probably at least 20 years older than you. I’ve had a couple surgeries on my left knee and my right leg and foot is still swollen from the ATV that landed on it at Boomershoot 2008. I’m overweight and my eyes take minutes to change focus from front sight distance to target distance.


 


And what caliber gun did you select? I’m going to shooting a .45. If we do the contest at the end of the weekend after shooting 1500 rounds in the heat and humidity my old muscles, ligaments, and bones will have taken a lot more damage than someone much younger shooting a 9mm.


 


-joe-


 


From: Ahab
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 10:54 AM
To: Joe Huffman
Cc: Say Uncle; Sebastian; Bitter Bitch; Deleted @progunprogressive.com
Subject: Re: My dad can beat up your dad


 


I reckon determining the winner would be kind of challenging, and we would have to handicap because I picked the 9mm.

I don’t know, let’s turn it over to the posse to see if they have any ideas.  Well, everyone except for Robb, because his idea will involve jokes about sausage.


 


From: Joe Huffman
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 11:04 AM
To: ‘Ahab’
Cc: ‘Say Uncle’; Sebastian; ‘Bitter Bitch’; Deleted @progunprogressive.com’
Subject: RE: My dad can beat up your dad


 


How about an El Presidente? Score it according to USPSA rules and that would take into account the 9mm versus .45. It would also test a number of different skills including the draw, the reload, accuracy and speed.


 


And you are forgetting the handicap I should get for my age and infirmities. J


 


-joe-


 


From: Ahab
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 11:07 AM
To: Joe Huffman; Say Uncle; Sebastian; Bitter Bitch; Deleted@progunprogressive.com
Subject: Re: My dad can beat up your dad


 


Yeah, but you’ve been shooting for a lot longer than me.


 


🙂


 


From: Joe Huffman
Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 12:08 PM
To: ‘Ahab’
Cc: ‘Say Uncle’; Sebastian; ‘Bitter Bitch’; Deleted@progunprogressive.com’
Subject: RE: My dad can beat up your dad


 


Ignoring a 100 rounds or so that I shot when I was living at home on the farm I have been shooting for about 15 years. Is that more than you?


 


Regardless, I might be willing to give up on getting that handicap if you agree to a shooting test that isn’t too taxing on my aging body.


 


So, what are your thoughts on the El Presidente? Or do you just want to wimp out entirely on a contest?


 


 


-joe-


 


From: Ahab
Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 12:10 PM
To: Joe Huffman
Cc: Say Uncle; Sebastian; Bitter Bitch; Deleted@progunprogressive.com
Subject: Re: My dad can beat up your dad


 


I would shoot an El Presidente, that sounds good.  I’ve been shooting seriously since I was about 19, so that would give me 7 years, giving you a bit more experience.  Plus it’s been my personal observation that experience and treachery defeat youthful enthusiasm most of the time. 


 


From: Joe Huffman
Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 12:20 PM
To: ‘Ahab’
Cc: ‘Say Uncle’; Sebastian; ‘Bitter Bitch’; Deleted@progunprogressive.com’
Subject: RE: My dad can beat up your dad


 


Have you ever shot an El Presidente before? There’s not much treachery possible there.


 


-joe-


 


From: Ahab 
Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 12:26 PM
To: Joe Huffman
Cc: Say Uncle; Sebastian; Bitter Bitch; Deleted@progunprogressive.com
Subject: Re: My dad can beat up your dad


 


Fair enough, I’ve only shot one el presidente in my time, so if you’ve shot 10 or 12 that would count under the “treachery” category.  🙂

But no, I am totally game for an El Pres as the deciding factor.


 


From: Sebastian
Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 12:29 PM
To: Ahab
Cc: Joe Huffman; Say Uncle; Bitter Bitch; Deleted@progunprogressive.com
Subject: Re: My dad can beat up your dad


 


Sorry Caleb, but I’d put my money on Joe 😉


 


From: Joe Huffman
Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 12:49 PM
To: ‘Ahab’
Cc: ‘Say Uncle’; Sebastian; ‘Bitter Bitch’; Deleted@progunprogressive.com’
Subject: RE: My dad can beat up your dad


 


Ø  I am totally game for an El Pres as the deciding factor.


 


With all applicable USPSA rules applying (http://www.uspsa.org/rules/2008HandgunRulesindexed.pdf)?


 


-joe-


I can’t find any further email on it but I think it was in comments on some blog post we did agreed to the contest as being the USPSA El Presidente classifier with all USPSA rules applying. The stakes will probably end up being 250 rounds of 180 grain FMJ .40 S&W ammo. That’s higher stakes that I would really think are appropriate but we arrived at that after I suggested a case (typically 1000 rounds) was too much. [shrug] I can handle the pain of losing my first bet in 30 years and if Caleb is okay with taking that risk then I guess that settles it.


Just a couple more items of potential interest:




  1. You will notice Caleb (Ahab) said ” experience and treachery defeat youthful enthusiasm”. Which was a nice way of saying old age and treachery.


  2. Last night on the show I said I accepted the bet mostly because of his attitude. I have never seen him shoot (I have seen Say Uncle shoot and I’m pretty sure I can “take” him). I met Caleb last May and he had a slight attitude that was completely lacking in every shooter that I personal know and I know can beat me. Just a little too cocksure of himself. I explained this last night and in an email after the show he said, “that was the nicest way in which I’ve ever been called an arrogant bastard”. That’s me. Always the diplomat*.




* Diplomat: One skilled in the art of saying “Nice doggy” until he can find the right sized stick.

On the air

Well, not really “on the air” in the traditional sense.


Tomorrow night Rob Allen and I will be guests on http://blogtalkradio.com/gunnuts hosted by Caleb and Squeaky. The topic will be the Para sponsored training with Todd Jarrett at Blackwater this weekend. Caleb, Robb, and I (along with a bunch of others) will be participating. Caleb also wants to talk about our bet.


Listeners are welcome to call in so in addition to listening you should consider calling to tell me how silly it was of me to accept a shooting bet with someone I have never seen shoot.

Quote of the day–Squeaky Wheel

Blowing shit up with rifles?  Come ON!  A MESS OF AWESOME AT YOUR FINGERTIPS.  LITERALLY.


Squeaky Wheel
August 17, 2008
I’m certified to build things that can blow other things up.
[It makes me happy to make others happy. Derek seems pretty happy for the same reason. There will be another batch of happy people later, it was just that I sent Squeaky and Derek’s forms in at the same time as my Type 20 (license to manufacture high explosives) renewal. Forms from other people came in later.


I think Boomershoot 2009 is going to make me more happy than usual.–Joe]