Pistols with Rifle Receivers

I guess I’ll call them “PRRs” or “RRPs” (Rifle Receiver Pistols).  A few of us made comments over at at Say Uncle about the use of such pistols.  There was the assertion that Blackwater personnel have been using AK pistols out of vehicles.  I don’t get it.  Here’s my last comment;

A cut down, folding stock carbine I can see (AKS-74U et al) but I have yet to understand the allure of the “pistol” version (no shoulder stock at all).

“They became very common with Blackwater in Iraq.”

You’re not referring to a folder rather than a pistol?

Stateside, I see the rifle receiver pistol as a political creation (if it has a shoulder stock it falls under the NFA [as a short barreled rifle, or SBR]) rather than something that arose for a particular application.  Otherwise we’d be seeing handguns more along the lines of an Automag with 30 round mags, and/or the Tech 9 or some iteration thereof would be popular, which it isn’t.

There must be something I don’t understand.  Is it all about suppressive fire?  But in that case what’s wrong with having a folding stock on there just in case you want to, you know, aim, or something?

Can anyone fill me in on the particulars?  Why an AK pistol, AR pistol, etc., other than the fact that the stocked version comes with the NFA hassles and tax for civilians?  I mean; why are such pistols desired for defense and/or in combat?  Or are they?

Busy time at work

I put in about 15 hours at work yesterday and I have been up since about 5:00 AM this morning working too.

We have a major deadline tonight and I expect I’ll be very busy until late tonight and then crashing after that.

My blog and email may get some attention tomorrow or the next day.

Quote of the day–Peter Masundire

How could he be in charge of Seattle’s gun-prevention programs?

Peter Masundire
January 5, 2009
A Democratic activist in South Seattle.
Gun guy packs heat in message
Referring to Seattle mayor’s gun adviser, Mark Pursley.
[It’s nice for them to admit that is what the position is intended for. And it’s also nice to know the guy in that position has at least some sympathy for our position.

H/T to Mike and Ry for the email pointer.–Joe]

It’s not fear of government

Some anti-gun people get upset and start whining about pro-gun people being “afraid of our government”. They try to portray citizens exercising their right to keep and bear arms as paranoid. In the general case this is certainly wrong.

It is not a fear of government that motivates us to acquire arms and training. It is the public servants that do not fear their citizens.

Quote of the day–Ben Franklin

Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become more corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters.

Ben Franklin
[I was inspired to choose this quote because of Kevin’s QOTD yesterday.

Assuming this is true then it would follow that those who wish to be masters might purposefully set about to encourage corruption and destroy virture.

Although I don’t care to take the time to do this I believe a good case could be made that it has already happened.–Joe]

Quote of the day–Sarah Brady

More than ninety percent of Americans agree that a waiting period to purchase firearms is sane, sensible policy, and the success of the Brady Law over the last five years proves them right. Why are we fixing what isn’t broken? And why will we again be losing innocent people to an enraged spouse, a disturbed employee, or a would-be criminal needing a fast and easy firearm?

Sarah Brady
Press Release from Handgun Control Inc.
November 30, 1998
From http://www.handguncontrol.org/press/nov30-98.htm (as of February 18, 1999) it is still available at http://www.handguncontrol.org/media/press/view/147 which is an alias for http://www.bradycampaign.org/media/press/view/147.
[Two things.

First, Brady/HCI measures success in terms of number of people blocked from purchasing a gun. They ignore studies that are unable to show their pet laws are effective. They ignore the people who died who might have lived had they been able to purchase a gun to defend themselves from a serious and immediate threat. This is like being pleased your unmarried teenage daughter wasn’t able to purchase contraceptives at the local drug store and ignoring that she is pregnant.

Second, the domain handguncontrol.org is a valid alias for bradycampaign.org. This is true both technically and politically. “Brady Campaign” was an attempt to hide what they really are. Just as they attempted to hide the meaning of the Second Amendment prior to the Heller decision they continue their deceptive ways now and probably will continue to do so as long as they exist.

For the geeks, I have saved you the effort to do the WhoIs query:

Domain ID:D3642098-LROR
Domain Name:HANDGUNCONTROL.ORG
Created On:03-Jun-1997 04:00:00 UTC
Last Updated On:06-Feb-2009 15:09:45 UTC
Expiration Date:02-Jun-2011 04:00:00 UTC
Sponsoring Registrar:Register.com Inc. (R71-LROR)
Status:OK
Registrant ID:7529249ef51fd237
Registrant Name:Keith Hall
Registrant Organization:Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence
Registrant Street1:1225 Eye Street, NW Suite 1100
Registrant Street2:
Registrant Street3:
Registrant City:Washington
Registrant State/Province:DC
Registrant Postal Code:20005
Registrant Country:US
Registrant Phone:+1.2022895784
Registrant Phone Ext.:
Registrant FAX:
Registrant FAX Ext.:
Registrant Email:webmaster@bradynetwork.org
Admin ID:84510988aa81f856
Admin Name:Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence
Admin Organization:Brady Campaign
Admin Street1:1225 Eye Street, NW Suite 1100
Admin Street2:
Admin Street3:
Admin City:Washington
Admin State/Province:DC
Admin Postal Code:20005
Admin Country:US
Admin Phone:+1.2022895784
Admin Phone Ext.:
Admin FAX:
Admin FAX Ext.:
Admin Email:webmaster@bradynetwork.org
Tech ID:C1-RCOM
Tech Name:Domain Registrar
Tech Organization:Register.Com
Tech Street1:575 8th Avenue
Tech Street2:11th Floor
Tech Street3:
Tech City:New York
Tech State/Province:NY
Tech Postal Code:10018
Tech Country:US
Tech Phone:+1.9027492701
Tech Phone Ext.:
Tech FAX:+1.9027495429
Tech FAX Ext.:
Tech Email:domain-registrar@register.com

–Joe]

Tilting at windmills

On Saturday I ran across a question:

Gun control why don’t you believe in it?.?

If there were a gun control many kids and older people would still be alive, I think i know the reason why there is such a fight against controlling the who has guns, It all falls on macho men or men who think it makes them tough, It starts very early in a boys life playing with toy guns and computer war games or hunting games, They learn very young at how to kill, and they call it fun. Boys don’t know how to play a non killing game. Now there older but not smarter they join the services so they can kill real people and get away with it with a pat on the back for great job soldier! if the survive men come home injured They expect a great home coming and that the Veterans or any hospital will treat them free, Well some come home with a missing leg or arm, some come home with a messed up mind and cant fit in with the rest of society, The killing continues Some G I ‘s kill strangers some kill there family’s and some kill themselves either way they were trained to kill. Where are the Peace Makers Why cant young boys be taught a different way of life? Like learning about our world and how to make it more Energy wise Or how to build instead of blowing things up, Or how to love and not hate? How to share not be greedy . I do feel sad for all the young boys, But once they come home from the killing fields i have no feeling for them just disgust they were trained to kill and want to continue killing even if it cost them their lives, I cannot feel sorry for the wounded soldier he or she Asked for it, For the love of the GUN & love of the KILL This is a sick world filled with sick men, Take the guns away what is left? Little men with little minds .For all you out there that say the killing is to keep America safe , That’s a joke Other country’s say the same thing . I love my country but i love my sons more so i teach them to share and to feel an others pain early in their childhood I did my part for the good of my country and my sons know that a life is to be lived not killed.

I responded:

Your very first sentence presumes facts not in evidence. The fact is there is no evidence that says gun control has ever made society safer. Anyplace, anytime, anywhere–EVER!

The rest of the rant is equally lacking in facts. To be taken seriously opinions and beliefs must be based on facts. Nothing in this “question” is factual based and therefore is only worthy of scorn.

Source(s):

https://blog.joehuffman.org/2004/12/14/just-one-question
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/rr5214a2.htm

And got this email in response:

It is a fact that guns kill, It is another fact that kids are getting the Guns from home , It is also a fact that the killing of kids in this good old USA is done by the kids that get GUNS from home, You Joe are the example of what i’m talking about, The very firearms you hold dear, will someday kill maybe you’ll be the one who will be shot with your own dear firearm, You men cant see past your macho ways. there must be a better world after this life, If not i dont want to be a part of the human race, Even animals dont kill their own, unless he or she is brain damaged.

I responded with this:

People kill. Sometimes they use guns. Sometimes the killings are illegal. Sometimes the killings are justified. Sometimes the killings are praiseworthy.

Sometimes accidental deaths happen when people use guns.

There are two questions at issue.

1) Does restricting firearms make society a safer place? The answer is no. There is no evidence of this.

2) Is it legal for a government to ban firearms? The answer is no. The U.S. Supreme Court has ruled that the right to Keep and Bear Arms is an individual right that may not be infringed.

Just as freedom of speech and religion can be used for evil so can firearms. The only acceptable mitigations to this is to punish the individual people that abuse their freedoms. To infringe the freedoms of people that have done no wrong is immoral and illegal.

And if you think I’m macho then you haven’t spent any time around me, talked to my wife, children, friends, or even read my blog.

Facts. It’s what reality is made of. I suggest you check it out.

If you have a Yahoo! ID you can also answer her “question” by going here.

Update: She responded again.

Guns dont kill by themselfs Joe. But i get your drift, it will take God himself to make gun owners see that he gave life and he did not ask “man” to end life. We can disagree all day long, But guns kill, Man needs to become humble and value other lives as he does his own.

She is incoherent enough at this point that I think I will just let it drop at this point.

Update: The question has been deleted. I wonder why… 🙂

Play the ‘substitution game’ on this one

Via David Hardy.

Court upholds police pointing gun at lawful carrier:

The case stems from a lawyer who sued a police officer after he was detained for lawfully carrying a concealed weapon while in possession of a license to carry concealed.  According to the case opinion, the lawyer, Greg Schubert, had a pistol concealed under his suit coat, and Mr. Schubert was walking in what the court described as a “high crime area.” At some point a police officer, J.B. Stern, who lived up to his last name, caught a glimpse of the attorney’s pistol, and he leapt out of his patrol car “in a dynamic and explosive manner” with his gun drawn, pointing it at the attorney’s face.

Officer Stern “executed a pat-frisk,” and Mr. Schubert produced his license to carry a concealed weapon. He was disarmed and ordered to stand in front of the patrol car in the hot sun. At some point, the officer locked him in the back seat of the police car and delivered a lecture. Officer Stern “partially Mirandized Schubert, mentioned the possibility of a criminal charge, and told Schubert that he (Stern) was the only person allowed to carry a weapon on his beat.”

For most people, this would be enough to conclude that they were being harassed for the exercise of a constitutional right, but the officer went further, seizing the attorney’s pistol and leaving with it. Officer Stern reasoned that because he could not confirm the “facially valid” license to carry, he would not permit the attorney to carry. Officer Stern drove away with the license and the firearm, leaving the attorney unarmed, dressed in a suit, and alone in what the officer himself argued was a high crime area.

The attorney sued in federal court, but the District Court threw out his suit, ruling that Officer Stern’s behavior is the proper way to treat people who lawfully carry concealed pistols.  Mr. Schubert appealed, and the First Circuit upheld the District Court’s ruling. The court held that the stop was lawful and that Officer Stern “was permitted to take actions to ensure his own safety.”

What if this had been a minority of some sort, or someone exercising their right to free speech, or someone exercising their right to have a lawyer present while being questioned? Is this in any way respecting our rights? Or is the right to keep and bear arms special such that the police can ignore it if they want?

Busy day

Even though I haven’t gotten out of bed yet (aren’t laptops great!) and have already made a couple of blog posts I have a very busy day ahead of me. In addition to the usual things like attending to hygiene, food, and clothing I need to make up a couple hundred rounds of .40 S&W and head out to the range for a USPSA action pistol match. After that I have to return to Redmond to help The Borg conquer the galaxy.

I turned off Captcha on the comments to help some people that were having problems with it. If you see a bunch of spam comments start showing up don’t worry about it. I’ll take care of them by tomorrow morning.

Update: The pistol match went fairly well. I messed up a reload on one stage or else I might have actually won. I came in second instead:

Place Name USPSA Class Division PF Age Points Stg %
1 H., KW L2847 B Limited 10 Major Senior 313.6755 100.00%
2 H., JOE TY29386 B Limited Major 288.3225 91.92%
3 P., TY A56401 B Limited Major 278.8331 88.89%
4 M., ADAM A42720 M Limited Major 275.2926 87.76%
5 B., MIKE A39993 A Limited 10 Major 262.8004 83.78%
6 I., KEVIN L2544 B Limited Major 235.1292 74.96%
7 W., DON TY25213 A Limited Major Senior 211.9319 67.56%
8 W., ROGER U Limited 10 Major Senior 196.7338 62.72%
9 Revo, Roger U Revolver Major Senior 187.4962 59.77%
10 R., NICHOLAS A57321 D Production Minor Junior 169.0668 53.90%
11 Gr., John A65903 U Limited Major 147.6443 47.07%
12 D., Jerry U Limited 10 Major Senior 99.7761 31.81%
13 M., Bill U Limited Major 87.8599 28.01%

 
One of the most interesting stages was called “If it had been 1911”. This was to simulate 9/11. Here is a picture:

We started sitting in the chair and had to stay within the box. There is a Pepper Popper on the left in the shadow of a no shoot which activates a swinging target coming out from behind the stack of barrels on the right (simulates a hijacker come out of the bathroom).

I got 50 points (out of 55 possible–an 11 round stage) in 8.31 seconds for a hit factor of 6.0168. Pretty good, I figure, for almost all head shots except for the mover. Especially with all the hostages to avoid.

That white stuff on the ground? That is snow. SOME wimps stop shooting outdoors in the winter–but not at our range in North Central Idaho.

Central planning proves itself AGAIN

If you remember I talked to a co-worker who grew up in East Germany. One of the things I wrote about that was:

His eyes narrowed and his jaw clenched. “You tell them I lived that. You tell them to go visit this town. Yah!”, and he showed me a town on a map of Germany. “Not one bomb was dropped on that town during the entire war”, he said. “There was no fighting in that town. But if you go there that town looks like it was all bombed out. When people don’t own their property they don’t care. The roofs, they are all falling down. Yah! You tell him to go there and look for himself.”

It turns out you don’t have to go to Germany to validate that condemnation of leftists, their central planning, and their hatred of capitalism. You could just go to Detroit. Or check out this video I found at Kevin’s place:

Quote of the day–Hillbilly

When it comes to those who truly think they are elites, who truly condescend when it comes to gun owners, you are basically encountering the anti-gun Klan.

No matter the education, the polish, the social graces they might show, the anti-gun Klan is just as big a stinking dog-crap pile of bigoted, prejudiced rotteness as the other more famous Klan.

In other words, don’t go out of your way to convert the truly condescending ones.

They cannot be reached, because you are merely a silly peasant, and they are just smarter than you are.

Hillbilly
January 2, 2010
Comment to The Big Debate: Godwin?
[As I have been saying, for years, The Brady Campaign is the 21st century equivalent of the KKK.–Joe]

Details on the Lakewood shooting

From the WA-CCW email list:

Coffee shop was owned by a retired Tacoma pd officer. It was considered a “safe” hangout for cops waiting to go on duty, or to stop by for a break.

Lakewood Pd (officers that were killed) was a new department recently formed.  Almost all of the deputies were hired from Peirce co Sheriffs office.  The deputies were hired from the jail. Most were sworn deputies, but had primarily worked the jail. Sounds like they had little time on road.

The four deputies were drinking coffee before shift and working on laptops with heads down. Table was approximately 15 feet from counter/check out register.

Shooter came in and smiles and acknowledges the two deputies facing the door way/entrance. They return greeting. Shooter goes up to counter like he is going to order. After stepping up to counter, he pulls semi-automatic pistol from under his coat. Shooter takes a couple of steps toward table, where the deputies are seated. Distance is now approximately 12 feet.

Shooter shoots first deputy, who is facing him across table. He is shot in head. He is killed instantly. Shooter then shoots nearest deputy, that is seated away from him, in the back of the head. He is killed instantly.  Shooter then shoots across table at third deputy, who is facing him, and misses. Fourth shot is fired and strikes third deputy in face, killing him instantly.

Last deputy is a Sgt. He stands, while drawing weapon, and charges shooter.  Table knocked over in attempt to stand. Sgt grabs shooter by coat and engages shooter. First round strikes shooter in mid-section and goes through and through. Second round is fired and strikes shooter in front pocket. Round hits keys, but penetrates about 1.5 inches into shooters thigh. Deputies carry 180 grain gold dot ammunition (unknown at this time what kind of pistol).

Shooter raises gun and shoots Sgt in face. Sgt falls to ground. Shooter kneels/bends over Sgt and does a CONTACT shot to the right eye.  Shooter then shoots Sgt in the other eye, once again a CONTACT shot.

Shooter takes Sgt’s wallet and steals credit cards and Sgt’s duty weapon.
Shooter does not rob the store or hurt or threaten anyone else.

The shooting lasted approximately 3-5 seconds for the first three deputies.
The Sgt’s encounter lasted another 5-7 seconds.

Accomplice waiting outside and gets into car. They leave the area.  Accomplice is a former cell mate he did time with in Arkansas prison.

Federal agents track shooter by cellphone “pinging” to locate phone/area.  Five more additional accomplices help shooter with medical issues, food, money ect. Feds find driver and get the name of shooter.  All accomplices are arrested and general area where shooter is headed is found out.

Tuesday approximately 3:00 a.m. shooter turns off phone and takes battery out, so that Feds can no longer track phone.

Short time later, Peirce county deputy checks 10-46 abandoned car. Car running with lights on and drivers door open.

As Deputy was walking back to squad he sees movement from behind squad.  Once he clears his headlights, which were blinding him, he sees shooter recognizes him. Shooter is crouching behind squad now. Deputy orders him to ground and other commands. Shooter attempts to draw weapon and to run.  Deputy fires five rounds. Three strike the shooter. Shooter falls to ground.  Deputy covers shooter until back up arrives. Unknown how long this took.  Once back up on scene, shooter is cuffed. He is dead at this point.

Deputies find slain Sgt’s duty weapon on shooter. The round recovered from the shooters body is traced to the Sgt’s weapon, confirming the Sgt shot the shooter.

Some lessons to learn from our fallen brothers.

1. Just because you are “off duty” or in a “safe” restaurant, keep your head up and your eyes and ears open.
2. Do not sit close to the register or other focal point (entrance doors, bathrooms, hallways ect). Try to sit where you can scan the area.

3. Leave devices that distract you, like laptops,ect in the car. Do your reports and other things that take your mind off your safety, at post or far away from the public.
4. Even at lunch or break, don’t let your guard down. You should always be in condition yellow.
5. Keep your distance. Take those lateral steps or diagonal steps and move. It is a lot harder for the bad guy to shoot a moving target, let alone alot of distance.
6. Each time you train, train as if your life depends on it.

When the time comes, you will not arise to the occasion and be a hero, you will fall to you level of your training effort and perform at that level.  I do not think they could have done anything different after the contact, do your best at whatever training you attend. Lose the mentality of “It will never happen to me” and train as you wish to fight, fight like you train.

There also is speculation that the “abandoned car” was a trap enable another police killing.

People get all wound up about the guy using a gun to kill. I think fewer lives were taken and he was caught because he did use a gun. In this situation walking in with a lite road flare in your hip pocket and a five gallon bucket of gasoline to soak them down with would have been just as effective and probably less risky for the murderer.

Even with all the shooting I have done and being able to put aimed shots in a stationary man sized target 10 feet away at the rate of about five per second I wouldn’t take on four people, all armed, in a situation like that. It’s just too risky. Had they been in the middle of an empty parking lot and I was concealed 500 yards away with a scoped rifle then maybe the risk would be acceptable to use a gun.

Survival list

Via email from MD Creekmore I received a link to this list of survival related materials. It all seems to be pretty straight forward and obvious stuff. I found the headings on the “Survival Guns” list somewhat amusing:

I work at Wal-Mart Arsenal
  1. Mosin Nagant 91 rifle
  2. Single Shot .12 gauge
  3. Smith&Wesson model 10
The Government Welfare Arsenal
  1. Short Magazine Lee-Enfield
  2. Mossberg Maverick 88 12 gauge pump
  3. Smith&Wesson model 10
  4. Ruger 10/22
I have a full time Job Arsenal
  1. Ruger Mini-14 Ranch Rifle or AR-15
  2. Mossberg 500 12 Gauge
  3. Glock Model 19
  4. Ruger 10/22
Two Jobs and Maxed Credit Card Arsenal
  1. Ruger Mini-14 Ranch Rifle or AR-15
  2. Remington 870 express with spare riot barrel
  3. Glock 19
  4. Ruger 10/22
  5. Winchester Model 70 in .308 Win.
  6. Taurus CIA Model 850 .38 SPL. Revolver
And Finally the Yuppie Survival Arsenal
  1. L1A1 Rifle chambered in .308 Winchester
  2. Remington Model 7 bolt action chambered in .223
  3. Winchester Model 70 in 308 Win.
  4. Remington 870 express with spare riot gun barrel
  5. Colt 1911 A1 .45 ACP
  6. Taurus CIA Model 850 .38 SPL. Revolver
  7. Savage Model 24F .223 Remington over 12 gauge (if you can find one used)
  8. Ruger 10/22

I do question the need for both a revolver and a semi-auto pistol when both perform essentially the same in terminal ballistics, range, concealability, portability, and availability of ammo.

Also of possible interest is that if you are in the Seattle or Moscow Idaho area I can get you wheat, lentils, and split peas in large quantities cheaper than you can find it almost anywhere else. People attending Boomershoot can arrange for pick up at that time as well. Send me an email with the commodities and quantities you are interested in. The smallest unit I’m interested dealing in would be 50 pounds of any one item.

Nice sentiment

A bill being proposed in New Hampshire would make felons out of Federal Law enforcement officers that attempt to enforce certain Federal anti-gun laws:

II. Any official, agent, or employee of the government of the United States, or employee of a corporation providing services to the government of the United States that enforces or attempts to enforce a act, order, law, statute, rule or regulation of the government of the United States upon a personal firearm, a firearm accessory, or ammunition that is manufactured commercially or privately in New Hampshire and that remains within the State of New Hampshire shall be guilty of a class B felony.

See also here and here for more views on the topic.

There are two non-obvious points I find very interesting with this.

  1. The states, in effect nullified the Real ID act by refusing to comply with the Federal law.

I’m not particularily hopeful that it will get passed and actually come to it but assuming the bill goes into law I wish I had the time, money, and opportunity to sit around taking pictures and eating popcorn when the first Federal LEO gets arrested and tried.

I expect that there will be fireworks elsewhere and the issue will be settled before it come to that in NH.

Registries are considered punishment

I find it very telling that sex registries are considered punishment for the people on those lists. And because of that some registries have been declared unconstitutional.

But advocates of registries for gun owners and guns don’t see the problem.

But we shouldn’t be surprised. Advocates of restrictions on guns don’t respect the Bill of Rights or even the Constitution in general.

Like clockwork

I’ve been updating my Brady Center needs money post with each new Tweet that comes in asking for money. They are up to 15 now.

Do you see the pattern? Just like clockwork (all times are Pacific Standard) at just after 8:00, 11:00 and 15:00 they ask for money each day.

Carrying near schools

I had a nice long chat with shooting buddy Mike B. today. One of the things we talked about was the situation of carrying a firearm near schools. I didn’t realize it but just because your CCW license is good in another state doesn’t mean it protects you from prosecution for simply carrying concealed in that other state.

Mike supplied the evidence.

Basically the Federal law against carrying within 1000 feet of a school has an exemption if you have a CCW issued by the state in which the school is in. But if, for example, you have a Washington state license which is recognized by Idaho but no Idaho license and you and I, both carrying firearms, go walking past a school here in Moscow you could be charged with a crime and I would be innocent of any wrong doing.

Just another example of Huffman’s Rule of Firearms Law.

Quote of the day–Marshall McLuhan

I wouldn’t have seen it if I hadn’t believed it.

Marshall McLuhan
[This applies to many things. Once you believe the earth is round it is pretty easy to prove it. Once you believe it is possible to defend yourself with a firearm you see how it can be done and is easily a part of your everyday life.

The risk is that once you believe something you may see things that are not there. For example, if you believe everyone is watching you then you can probably find sufficient evidence to maintain that belief. If you believe guns are only useful for murder then you can find evidence to maintain that belief. The same goes for man caused global warming (or cooling) and the benefits of socialism.

The solution to the dilemma is to understand how to distinguish truth from falsity detached from all belief and emotion. I’m saddened to report this appears to be much more difficult than it seems and far, far too rare.–Joe]