At the core of the generic Air-gen effect are nanopores, which are nanometer-sized holes that enable water and air to pass through any material, creating a surface charge as they do so. The harvesting structure would have to be constructed from a super thin layer of material filled with nanopores smaller than 100 nanometers, which is the equivalent of one-thousandth of a human hair.
Because of the tiny size of the holes, as water molecules pass through the layer of material from the top to the bottom, they will create a charge by coming into contact with the edges of the pore. This would result in a charge imbalance such as is found in clouds, as the upper part of the layer would targeted with more charge-carrying molecules than the lower section.
Essentially, a small-scale, contained “thunderstorm” is created, which is converted into electricity the same way lighting bolts are created.
Very cool. Similar to the air motor in the book Atlas Shrugged. However…
Excuse me! I have some questions. And to get those questions answered I presented them to Copilot:
Joe: Is “generic Air-gen effect” real? Or is this a potential hoax or “perpetual motion” type invention?
Copilot: The “Air-gen effect” is a real scientific discovery, not a hoax or perpetual motion invention. Researchers at the University of Massachusetts Amherst developed this technology, which generates electricity from the humidity in the air using materials with nanopores smaller than 100 nanometers.
The concept is based on the ability of these nanopores to create a charge imbalance when water molecules pass through them, generating a continuous electric current. While it’s still in the early stages of development, the potential for this technology to provide a sustainable and continuous source of clean energy is promising.
Does this sound like something you’d like to learn more about?
Joe: I want to learn more. I would think the creation of the charge imbalance would require a force. The force would require slightly more energy than could be recovered from the harvesting of the charge. Is my thinking wrong?
Copilot: You’re right to think about the energy balance involved! The creation of a charge imbalance does indeed require energy, but the key here is that the energy needed to create the charge imbalance is less than the energy harvested from the resulting electric current.
The Air-gen effect leverages the natural movement of water molecules through nanopores, which generates a continuous electric current without the need for an external energy input. This means that the system can theoretically produce more energy than it consumes, making it a sustainable energy source.
It’s a fascinating concept, and researchers are still working on optimizing the efficiency and scalability of this technology. Do you think this could be a game-changer for renewable energy?
Joe: The “natural movement of water molecules” requires energy. Where does this energy come from?
Copilot: The energy that drives the natural movement of water molecules in the Air-gen effect comes from the ambient environment, specifically from the humidity in the air.
In essence, the water molecules in the air are already in motion due to thermal energy (heat) present in the environment. This thermal energy causes water molecules to evaporate and move around in the air. When these water molecules encounter the nanopores in the material used for the Air-gen effect, their movement through the nanopores generates a charge imbalance, which in turn produces an electric current.
So, the system taps into the existing thermal energy in the environment to create electricity, making it a form of energy harvesting rather than a system that requires external energy input.
It’s a clever way of turning a natural and abundant phenomenon into a useful source of renewable energy. Would you like to dive deeper into how this technology works or explore other advancements in renewable energy?
Joe: If the thermal energy of the water molecules is reduced, then why doesn’t the water condense? Can the same water molecule be used over and over to produce limitless energy?
Copilot: <60 minutes 15 hours, and counting, of crickets>*
I can envision the theoretical possibility of a device that took in humid air and output water, drier and/or cooler air, and electricity. But I have my doubts about being able to do that with nanopores in a super thin material.
I could see it being a component of a science fiction story. But it is going to take a lot more to convince me it is a real thing.
* I am envisioning Copilot rapidly using more and more memory and CPUs to try and answer the question. I will not be surprised if a Microsoft data center brings down the local grid before morning.
Energy balance was my first thought as well … It has to come from somewhere, especially as we’re not talking about new physics here.
Second thing was scalability. The analogy I like to use for wind turbines is: one woodsman in the thousand-acre woods can cut wood for his own use, and the forest won’t notice; it’s a sustainable lifestyle for generations. Ten probably can make it work as well, with some thought, coordination and planning. One thousand woodsmen, though, in the same woods will have an impact and not a good one. Just as many wind turbines will affect the local weather and wind, far more than a single turbine would, as they extract energy from the air mass.
Same thing here. If attempted to be deployed en masse, how would it work? I’m now envisioning wind turbines being used as fans (hey, generators are motors, right?) to blow moist air through massive charge-exchange sails… Of course if the moist air came from, say, the cooling towers of next-gen reactors that might be an acceptable trade.
And now I need more coffee…
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Recovery of waste heat might be a viable use. I was thinking (see post below) of trying from the general environment and not seeing the scale. But recovery of heat from cooling water used for other generation sources could add efficiency to the overall system. – Nice thought.
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Get enough of those fan/sail combos and you’ll start pushing continents around, negating natural continental drift! After all, too many US troops on Guam runs the risk of capsizing the island, according to some.
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So is Copilot just regurgitating the original article or does it draw from other sources?
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In general, it pulls from multiple sources. I don’t know what happened in this case.
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Just idly wondering, since I don’t play around with any of the LLMs and I’m not willing to sign up with social media as a condition to using them:
How does the LLM do if you ask it to produce 1,000, 2,500 or 5,000 words, plus proper citations, on the subject of why socialism is a crime against humanity?
I’m fairly confident that most of the LLM AIs would do that for free-market capitalism. If they wouldn’t do one, then we test if it is more the case of “couldn’t” rather than “wouldn’t” by testing the other, as you can’t blame universal incapacity.
If I’m going to use a tool, I want to know it is doing what I ask, and not what I asked constrained by the unacknowledged additional guidance by unidentified persons. “Can’t do that because it is illegal under [legal reference]” is acknowledged guidance that is the responsibility of specific people subject to votes.
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AI makes shit up. Can’t recall the specific case right now, but a 2A brief presented by some state’s AG was just eviscerated by a judge when he learned that the text was AI generated and the “citations” were AI hallucinations.
I’ve used CoPilot to generate marketing language related to the industry I’m in (environmental drilling). Some of the articles were fairly decent and the remainder were poorly documented.
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It can’t be removing enough energy to freeze the water or it would plug the nanotubes. So it is removing a very small amount of energy. If only a couple of degrees of temperature drop then it would take a very large amount of air and a very large screen. Once again we fall into the engineering challenges of low density energy sources, they take large areas to create usable amounts of energy.
And if it based on energy from the water molecules, not the air molecules, the density is even lower, especially in the western half of the US (outside the PNW)
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Cool idea, but that story about how lightening is created has never been tested, and isn’t true. Atmospheric electricity is mostly solar forcing.
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Another interesting topic! That it only produces a fraction of a volt doesn’t seem like a huge problem if you can create a pile. But as the article and others have pointed out, scalability is yet to be solved. Fun to imagine an electric ‘still suit’ made of layered nanopore cloth though.
As above, if you start pulling meaningful amounts of energy out of the atmosphere, you have ask what effect -that- will have on the climate.
Personally, I’d rather tackle a few meters of ocean level rise due to heating, than 2 miles of glacial ice due to cooling.
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Is Copilot attempting to suggest that this device embodies a “molecular demon?”
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Similar thoughts crossed my mind.
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Nice experiment. And as mentioned, “scalability is the problem”, means it’s going nowhere soon.
One would think if you were looking at power from temp differences.
If you had an insulated tube/pipe you dangled/dropped 3500 ft. into the ocean. you could extract ocean water at almost freezing temp to the surface with a very light pump. As the pressures would be equal inside and outside the tube.
Probably run a sterling engine very well.
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It’s a real effect. The question now would be “is it useful”. We shall see.
Energy balance was my first thought as well … It has to come from somewhere, especially as we’re not talking about new physics here.
Second thing was scalability. The analogy I like to use for wind turbines is: one woodsman in the thousand-acre woods can cut wood for his own use, and the forest won’t notice; it’s a sustainable lifestyle for generations. Ten probably can make it work as well, with some thought, coordination and planning. One thousand woodsmen, though, in the same woods will have an impact and not a good one. Just as many wind turbines will affect the local weather and wind, far more than a single turbine would, as they extract energy from the air mass.
Same thing here. If attempted to be deployed en masse, how would it work? I’m now envisioning wind turbines being used as fans (hey, generators are motors, right?) to blow moist air through massive charge-exchange sails… Of course if the moist air came from, say, the cooling towers of next-gen reactors that might be an acceptable trade.
And now I need more coffee…
Recovery of waste heat might be a viable use. I was thinking (see post below) of trying from the general environment and not seeing the scale. But recovery of heat from cooling water used for other generation sources could add efficiency to the overall system. – Nice thought.
Get enough of those fan/sail combos and you’ll start pushing continents around, negating natural continental drift! After all, too many US troops on Guam runs the risk of capsizing the island, according to some.
So is Copilot just regurgitating the original article or does it draw from other sources?
In general, it pulls from multiple sources. I don’t know what happened in this case.
Just idly wondering, since I don’t play around with any of the LLMs and I’m not willing to sign up with social media as a condition to using them:
How does the LLM do if you ask it to produce 1,000, 2,500 or 5,000 words, plus proper citations, on the subject of why socialism is a crime against humanity?
I’m fairly confident that most of the LLM AIs would do that for free-market capitalism. If they wouldn’t do one, then we test if it is more the case of “couldn’t” rather than “wouldn’t” by testing the other, as you can’t blame universal incapacity.
If I’m going to use a tool, I want to know it is doing what I ask, and not what I asked constrained by the unacknowledged additional guidance by unidentified persons. “Can’t do that because it is illegal under [legal reference]” is acknowledged guidance that is the responsibility of specific people subject to votes.
AI makes shit up. Can’t recall the specific case right now, but a 2A brief presented by some state’s AG was just eviscerated by a judge when he learned that the text was AI generated and the “citations” were AI hallucinations.
I’ve used CoPilot to generate marketing language related to the industry I’m in (environmental drilling). Some of the articles were fairly decent and the remainder were poorly documented.
It can’t be removing enough energy to freeze the water or it would plug the nanotubes. So it is removing a very small amount of energy. If only a couple of degrees of temperature drop then it would take a very large amount of air and a very large screen. Once again we fall into the engineering challenges of low density energy sources, they take large areas to create usable amounts of energy.
And if it based on energy from the water molecules, not the air molecules, the density is even lower, especially in the western half of the US (outside the PNW)
Cool idea, but that story about how lightening is created has never been tested, and isn’t true. Atmospheric electricity is mostly solar forcing.
Another interesting topic! That it only produces a fraction of a volt doesn’t seem like a huge problem if you can create a pile. But as the article and others have pointed out, scalability is yet to be solved. Fun to imagine an electric ‘still suit’ made of layered nanopore cloth though.
As above, if you start pulling meaningful amounts of energy out of the atmosphere, you have ask what effect -that- will have on the climate.
Personally, I’d rather tackle a few meters of ocean level rise due to heating, than 2 miles of glacial ice due to cooling.
Is Copilot attempting to suggest that this device embodies a “molecular demon?”
Similar thoughts crossed my mind.
Nice experiment. And as mentioned, “scalability is the problem”, means it’s going nowhere soon.
One would think if you were looking at power from temp differences.
If you had an insulated tube/pipe you dangled/dropped 3500 ft. into the ocean. you could extract ocean water at almost freezing temp to the surface with a very light pump. As the pressures would be equal inside and outside the tube.
Probably run a sterling engine very well.
It’s a real effect. The question now would be “is it useful”. We shall see.
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