Here’s their plan

If anyone ever tells you “no one wants to take your guns” you can just point them at the NYT or any number of other people that have some vague thought of “ban guns” without any thought given to how that might actually be carried out. And we, rightly so, claim they don’t understand what would be involved in such an effort.

Here is someone who as thought it through a bit more. And note that they envisioned Act II Step 1 as happening today, December 11, 2015:

What has to go?
All magazine fed, self-loading firearms.
Yes, that means handguns too.
Yes, that includes your 4 shot Remington hunting rifle.

Act I Step 1:
The POTUS issues a EO, commanding the BATFE to “audit dealer records” – ie, look for “strawman sales” by reviewing each of the dealers Form 4473 records.
This is actually easier if the dealer has adopted the eForm 4473

For handwritten forms, an OCR scanner would be carried, the form scanned, and information corrected on a laptop prior to the next scan.

What can’t be done? Is hold a news conference.
It can’t be done by BATFE Agents alone, as this demands too many bodies in too many locations, at the very same time.

We as a nation, will have to let a few things slide, while various agencies supply personnel to work with BATFE Agents.
Yes, a same day, nationwide “I’m here to review your records”.  Close every single gun seller that day, days, or week(s) until the audit is complete.  Sold a hundred guns in your entire existence? We’ll be gone by 4pm today.  Sell a hundred per day?  You can re-open after the end of the year.
It’ll put you out of business?  Impact hunting season and holiday sales? (Which next to DiFi’s failed AWB II is the most money you make in a year?)  That’s sad.
We score that as a win… you and your fellow death merchants can retrain as Baristas.

So, now we have ALL the records scanned… and a comprehensive list of who purchased what gun where.  Those are sorted for make and model.

Semi-auto shotguns.

Semi-auto rifles.

Rimfire rifles.
Semi-auto rimfire rifles.

Semi-auto handguns.

(save ALL of this data for later)

Step 2: permit the dealers to reopen – however, now the eForm 4473 is 100% required,
and in a slight tweak, batch processing is done once a week, where the forms are uploaded “to the cloud”.
(as-if ‘the cloud’ isn’t on those servers already)

Step 3: Prioritize you list.

Act II Step 1:

Strike a deal with the Republicans.  For public consumption, word it as ambiguously as possible… as was the ACA (just pass it and we’ll find out what’s in it) and stuff it into the next Continuing Resolution.

On this 11th day of December, 2015 this 114th Congress does hereby resolve to instruct the Department of Justice to audit all Federally Licensed Firearm retailers for compliance with 18 USC as condition of their license, and direct all necessary resources to do same.  The Director of the BATFE, the Attorney General of the United States, and the Director of Homeland Security may adopt policies and procedures necessary to effect this Congressional mandate.

About those Republicans:
First, they’re really not that happy with massive civilian gun ownership, they just like the cash from the pro-gun crowd.
They like the cash from Wall Street, and Corporate America better.

Give Congress the choice between:
a) massive controls on financial transactions, killing their benefactor’s proven-risk derivative market
– or –
b) massive (armed) civil unrest when we pull a Greece and shove a total economic collapse onto the American taxpayer?
Rationed water, electric, heat, food and fuel and a 65% tax on your income.

Everyone other than a Tea Party Republican will choose to eliminate the risk of option b.
The motion will pass.

There’s going to be a political quid pro quo. I’d hang my hat on “illegal immigrants” taking it in the neck. How and why, is below.

Step 2:
Federalize (“second”) the National Guard of the respective states.  Just as we could send them to war in Iraq, we can deploy them as deputized federal agents. One BATFE agent to 3 or 4 guardsmen.

Step 3:
Go door-to-door with your list of gun purchasers, and get access to the guns.  A massive VIPR-like sweep.
No gun? Where is it?
Who has it? Where’s the paperwork?  No gun, no paperwork?
You’re coming with us… the weather in Cuba is fine.
Sadly, it appears the nationwide cell phone network is down, unless you’re using a government contract cell phone.
Yes, surprise is key.
Oh, by the way… you have ID don’t you?  Born here?  Let’s run that ID.
So… you’re here on a visa, that expired in 2003.
You’re coming with us, the weather in Minot, North Dakota is fine.

There’s your required quid pro quo to the Republicans.

Step 4:
Anticipate the Federal Court Injunctions.
Injunctions which are enforced by… the DOJ and US Marshals.
Who are preoccupied in carrying out the mandate of Congress.
You’ve reached the DOJ, leave a message at the beep.

Step 5:
Mistakes happen.
Somewhere in the process, an “honest mistake” happened.

Knock, view, verify and record the presence of the named firearm in the possession of the named owner – or find out who has that firearm – was misinterpreted.

Knock, bash-in the door, verify the presence of, and confiscate the named firearm – became the process.

Rules of Engagement were defined as: “take no incoming fire – lethal means authorized”.
A few “rogue operators” decided that if it looked sketchy, breach the door after the flash-bang grenades, and engage anyone seen with a firearm in proximity using lethal force.

Step 6:
The number of confiscated firearms becomes a problem.  National Guard units are directed to turn the contraband over to Active Duty Military Police.  Certain weapons may be re-purposed by the government, exported to allies, used by agencies, or stripped for parts.

Light alloys are put into a grinder, steel and stainless steel are cut with a plasma torch to render  non-salvageable (prevents theft in transit), then taken to a smelter to be melted down.

Step 7:
The higher Federal Courts, and perhaps the SCOTUS weigh in.

Answer A: “It’s gotten out of hand, and we can’t reach all of the field units… your order to cease is understood and complied with at the Executive Level.  The logistical issues however, preclude prompt compliance in the field. The majority of units are out of contact, operating independently beyond range of communications.”

Answer B:
Arrest those Judges.  What part of Congressional Mandate didn’t you understand?

There’s going to be some issue, with a few mouthy Governors complaining about “…patent misuse of the Guard, violation of the Constit…” Yep.
We’re sorry, the Governor’s new conference has encountered technical difficulties.
To Jamie, and Sports!

It’s amazing what a FBI Agent can do for video production: “Cut the feed, NOW. Otherwise? You’re coming with me, the weather in Cuba is fine.”

The prevention of an armed civil insurrection requires a total lockdown on the ability to communicate.  The NSA knows this. Anyone studying the Arab Spring knows this.

The email servers of the various pro-gun groups “appear to have sustained a prolonged DoS attack by some overseas entity in Asia“.

Facebook decided that a new version of their photo and written content filter was worth Beta testing, and all gun-related images and commentary ceased to be shown.
Yes, the “nipple filter” took down the gun fetishists.

There is a lot more. But the bottom line is this is not someone who has some vague vision of rainbow farting unicorns carrying away all the guns being turned in for destruction and everyone living happily ever after.This is someone envisioning bypassing legal restraints, separation of powers, and with the complete disregard for the Bill of Rights imprisons or murders whoever stands in their way.

Of course they are still totally delusional about how that would turn out. They didn’t look at the numbers. I have. Out of nearly 11,000 posts here it’s the post popular post ever.

Don’t ever let anyone get away with telling you that people wanting to take your guns are just spouting off or political grandstanding.


55 thoughts on “Here’s their plan

  1. the final step. i head to the nearest anything office that is implementing this plan. i protest these actions in the most direct way i can, e.g., the shit hits the fan. i continue my protest as long as practicable.

  2. Yes, well, the Soviets and others do have experience is just such operations. Also, we know that Progressives have been thinking along those lines for a very long time, else we’d never have had such a thing as a form 4473. We also know that they are perfectly willing, if not eager, to work in concert with criminals and jihadists, else we’d not have had F&F, and years and years of arming and training Islamist organizations like Hamas and others.

  3. I am not shocked that someone writing in a left- wing blog would put out something as inane, snide, and disdainful as this. A question to ask is, “After the guns and gun owners are removed from your society, what is to prevent the government from coming after YOU?”

    • The people who write are such narcissists that they think once “Utopia” is achieved they will sit at the right hand of the dear leader and have statues erected in their honor.

      • Weer’d Beard: correct.

        A total gun registry and owner licensing will prove insufficient to stop all gun suicides and homicides.
        There will be consensus from both parties, the guns go, end of story.
        Amerika… the new Oz: “Right-o, just turn them in now, ‘er ya go matey.”
        No quid-pro-quo, no political sausage-making.
        Closing borders, defunding birth control, or restricting abortion? It’s all off the table.
        Script: “The anti-gunners win, and give-up nothing in return. Everyone tokes a fat one in celebration of peace and harmony.”

  4. If you read the comments from the Guy who wrote that, it’s more of an ad absurdum rant about what it might look like, though he skips the part where gun owners shoot back.

    Commenters suggest “bullet control ” à la Chris Rock which “isn’t all that yard”. He points out reloading and casting your own bullets, contraband / import

  5. It looks like he lifted a lot of it from “The Enemies Trilogy” but didn’t pay attention to the part where the bad guys got what they had coming for their treason.

    • Calimero and Paul Koning:
      Yes, to ad absurdum. No to having read “The Enemies Trilogy”.

      Let’s not forget, on 9-11-01, the ability of civilians to successfully make and keep a cell phone connection was severely compromised for at least 12 hours.

      There’s plenty of precedence for DoS attacks taking down websites.
      As to HAM operators? I recall building radios from HeathKit kits, and shortwave relays due to natural disasters.
      What is your wider audience? HAM doesn’t reach J Q Public… and a well planned EMP event will toast anything not in a Faraday Cage.
      Network radio, television, phones and internet are the predominant forms of communication. IF I really wanted to flesh this out, and use some of the numbers employed in comments?
      The POTUS goes all-in, and declares Martial Law.
      That’s the height of lunacy – but not the limit to the anti-gunner delusions.
      Crime and criminals aren’t the target.
      White politically conservative voters self-identified evangelical and/or christians, are.
      50% of this is a “how’s that feel you bastards” for being anti-abortion, anti-gay, anti-welfare, anti-immigrant, anti-affirmative action.

      It’s political payback – and – it’s getting rid of the guns.
      “We DID something. Sadly young men of color kept dying, and people kept committing suicide.
      We stuck it to the angry white men clinging to their guns and religion.
      That’s the most important thing.”

      To cops, the Guard, and…
      As Will states below, post-Katrina, there was nearly zero push-back from LEOs being told to disarm civilians who were acting lawfully.
      That includes Guardsmen. “Governor said to do so, on orders from the President.”
      None of that needs to be true and accurate… just told to you by Command. “Sergeant??”
      Shut up. You heard the LT. He heard it from the Captain, who heard it from the Old Man.

      Post 9-11, most law enforcement new hires have been told they’re “front line in the GWOT” and will suck down whatever Statist and/or Violent Statist bullshit they’re fed.
      The Oath Keepers are few.
      Look at the level of violence against some lame-ass unarmed DFH #Occupy protesters, most of whom hoped to identify with their Vietnam War-era anti-Nixon grandparents, who ignored the fact LBJ put the most men in-country, not Nixon.

      Ask some of your active duty or retired friends about how trusted the **enlisted personnel** are with personal and/or duty weapons.
      Then ask about the select forces, such as MP/SP/AP who’s #1 task is to put Servicemembers into custody at gunpoint.

      As to gun owners? Divide and conquer.
      “We’re not coming for your Remington 700 BDL, nor your father’s Winchester Model 12. We’re coming for your nut job neighbor’s military style weapons; which you sir, as an outstanding example of a responsible gun owner, would never possess.”

      Oh, well… as you put it that way, feel free to park in my driveway.

      We’re coming for those “Saturday Night Specials” not your Colt Gold Cup.
      For those 9mm foreign guns, not your S&W Model 19.
      We’re coming for the Magnums, which have no business in a civilian’s hands as they’re a threat to law enforcement officer lives.

      Oh, well… as you put it that way.

      • There are more hams now than ever before, something like over 700,000 of them in the United States. It’s never been easier to get a ham radio license. You no longer need to know Morse code.

        There is also a pretty large overlap between gun guys and radio guys. I’m a perfect example of that. Go to any hamfest of any size and I guarantee you’ll see NRA stickers on some vehicles.

        And we have our own over-the-air digital networks to pass the word if it’s needed.

        • Plus there are a lot of new hams who got into it specifically and solely for EMCOM.

          (And maybe some SIGINT and ELINT for good measure.)

  6. He certainly makes explicit the linkage between registration and confiscation. As soon as he has his list of gun owners, he goes straight to the door to door searches. I’m not sure at what point in his process the civil war would break out, but I am sure it would be bloody.

    • Shades of “Red Dawn”: first thing, the invader’s commander tells his troops to go to the gun stores and gather up all the 4473s.

      • Yes, I haven’t watched that movie in years, but it does have some similarity to this guy’s plan. I don’t want the bloody civil war, but not fighting back in the scenario described would be craven and cowardly. I don’t think this guy could ever accomplish his goals, but there are others with more power who share them.

  7. Yeah. Pretty much all falls apart at Act II, Step 2. Sorry, asshole but, we’ve also gamed this out, and, uh, no (funny how he hangs this on the National Guard. Of all the potential gun grabbers, I think this group is the LAST we have to worry about. State police and county sheriff’s deputies are much more inclined to totalitarian leanings.).

    • JayBob, would you shoot some nameless F*k hammering your door open? I’d wager yeppers you would.

      What about your neighbor’s son Billy, in his National Guard Uniform?
      What of Laurie who your kid used-to date, as she’s right behind him.

      “JayBob, it’s us – Billy and Laurie – come on JayBob, open the door.”
      When you gun them down, do you expect their parents to put two behind your ear, and another two in your forehead?

      I would. I’d worry about that a lot.

      • And the inverse?

        Why don’t you ask if Billy and Laurie would *really* want to open fire on their friends and neighbors?

        Or is it okay because they’re “Just following orders”?

  8. His whole premise hinges on a misunderstanding of what constitutes communications.

    It sounds like he believes that he can shut off cell coverage, network radio and TV coverage and that will end any and all ability to communicate.

    Um, no. There are those of us out here that still retain more old-fashioned, some might say “quaint”, forms of communication. And the minute something like this happens. The airwaves will be filled with more traffic, and not simply in the clear traffic either, but data, and others that will facilitate said comms. Some are even so prepared that should the grid go down, they can still communicate.

    Of course, some of this also presumes that every transaction, commercial or private has to have a form 4473 (or an equivalent) … only a few states have such draconian, unconstitutional requirements

    I suggest he go out with one of those squads of 3 or 4 men with the BATFE agent and see how that works out for him

    • JavaMan, ask yourself this:
      Did Obama end incarcerations at Gitmo, as promised, “within 90 days of taking office”?
      Did he end “the disastrous drone warfare exacting too great a toll on innocents”?

      When “the balloon goes up” and you and your Commando rally, do you expect me to knock on the door?
      Stand at the door to breach?
      Or just crank-up the M242 Bushmaster and let my presence be known to “armed insurrectionists”?
      Should I travel light and just use a JTAC to call in that Hellfire?

      At the first shots from gun owners upon cops and/or soldiers, over half of the remaining gun owners will quit the fight and surrender to the Authorities.
      “I never thought I’d have to fire on our guys, the Russians or Mexicans maybe, but not us.”
      I’d wager over 80% if some PsyOps is used:
      “You’re firing on YOUR soldiers.
      Boys and girls you know from your State, your County, your Town, your street.
      EVERYONE! Surrender now. Walk out of the house unarmed, with both hands in the air.”

      Before you say “that’s bullshit” – how many lawfully armed citizens fired on the persons confiscating their weapons during Katrina?

  9. 1 He shut down cell service. Isn’t THAT quaint? Ever hear of HAM? CB?

    2 He thinks 4 or 5 guardsmen to each federal agent will work? That is not nearly enough people to break a single ambush. THAT particular tactic would be ugly.

    3 Isn’t it odd that the people who despise all things military are the ones who want to use them to enforce their dictates?

    That scenario would be bloody.

    • You may be surprised to learn how much radio traffic is carried over land lines. Also hams are more precisely registered with the federal government than most gun owners.

      I had a detailed rely, with specific anecdotes, but it got lost in a 404 party.

      • Hams are licensed, sure. (CB operators aren’t.) That doesn’t mean the feds know what equipment we have (if any), or where it is. Quite a bunch of us could take a couple of our handheld radios and hide them any old place, and since there isn’t anything like a 4473 for the transmitters, how would anyone know?
        For that matter, a reasonable fraction of hams can build a simple transmitter and receiver (at least for Morse code) out of component parts scrounged from old electronic equipment, so confiscating all the transceivers wouldn’t do the trick.
        And ham radio traffic doesn’t use land lines, except for a fraction of the tiny subset that use remote control of their station.

      • I have all kinds of radio equipment. I can cover the allocated parts of the radio spectrum from the 40 meter band all the way up to 900 mHz. The only way that the FCC can know who I am is if I transmit from home, or if I use my call sign.
        In a scenario such as the one above, the HAMs that are resisting won’t be home, and won’t be using an FCC issued call sign.
        A 2m transceiver can easily reach 10 miles across flat ground, and on a good day a signal the 20m band can span the entire US. Not a landline in use.
        I got into HAM so I could have a redundant form of communication as a backup. This redundant comms system is nearly impossible shut down without widespread jamming.

        • That. Quite frankly, the Hams know more about how to evade detection, because we are better at detection than the FCC. Every complaint the FCC runs down starts with a Ham telling them how to do it.

          Yes, I have a license. I transmit my callsign because I’m not a criminal. If this nutcase turns me into a criminal, I have no reason to continue.

  10. A little oversight in his plans. How much support would this have at say, Step 1 which can only be interpreted as an attempt to build the confiscation registry?

    I think a good number of us would start killing politicians and agents of the state right out of the gates.

    Their whole supposed premise is that when a dozen people die due to a madman, then we have to destroy private firearm ownership. (Actually, we know it is all about disarming us so they can have complete control over us). So, Imagine Day 1 of his glorious operation, there are a couple of dead agents and several politicians, the go-along compliant judges, and others? That’s just the opening salvo in ACW II.

    I see a different end to his scenario. I see NYT Times editors swinging from lamp posts, I see politicians blown up, I see SWAT team members killed in the arson of their home or shot in the back at Starbucks. It would be ugly and we would win.

    Someone needs to revoke his medical marijuana permit.

    • Not spliffing.
      I’ll also opine that your “right out of the gate” plan for lynching, arson, and assassination, would ensure those persons who might not obey orders to go door-to-door? Would find motivation and justification to follow orders and lay waste to your home, your block, your town.

      Even-if they might be thinking “good you bastard” over a certain politician.

      • One of the problems with your fantasy of declaring martial law and transforming this country into a totalitarian police state is that you might not get the cooperation you assume. Some police would follow orders. Others would remain loyal to the country and the constitution. The descent into civil war would be chaotic and unpredictable. Your goal of destroying this country might be achievable. I’m not sure you would be happy with the society that would emerge on the other side.

      • What about Billy and Laurie? Would THEY find motivation to lay waste to the town, block, and homes they grew up in? Would they unlimber their Bushmaster against “Armed Insurectionists” that may have been a teacher, the father of a girl friend/boy friend?

        I’d wager 80% of those used in that PsyOp would refuse.

        So the question remains then. Are you willing to take those odds, place that bet, and roll the dice? And if you are, are you willing to lead the charge? Are YOU willing to knock on the first door?

  11. Just some quick googling, according to Business Insider in 2012 there were nearly 130,000 FFLs in the US. According to wikipedia, the BATFE has fewer than 5,000 total employees. They may need to let more than a few things slide to borrow the extra 125,000 or so federal employees to put a body in every gun retailer that they want to audit. Oh, and have fun telling all the folks on a budget that they can’t buy their groceries and fill their kids’ prescriptions at Walmart until you’re done auditing their merchant of death.

    Unless I’m mistaken, they didn’t start using the 4473 until 1968. Guns are among the most durable of durable goods. After the ATF conscripts every federal agent to go door to door collecting all the de facto registered firearms, there may still be a stray gun or two in circulation out there. Even if those are the only guns not collected by the feds, it’s a lot to hope for that none of them will be used to seek retribution against a government that declared war on the country.

    You said this was written by someone who thought it though. I think you’re completely wrong. This is the childish fantasy of someone who hasn’t given more than the most superficial thought to the obvious result of his desired action.

    • I said, “someone who as thought it through a bit more.” And, “they are still totally delusional about how that would turn out. They didn’t look at the numbers.”

      My main point, perhaps not as clear as it should have been, was that they know it would require the, and are completely willing to, murder and imprison tens or hundreds of thousands of people to achieve their goals. Most people wanting to “ban guns” think passing the legislation is the end of the story and then everyone lives happily ever after.

      • Don’t you just love how casually he talks about arresting judges for issuing court injunctions against this thing? That jumped out at me in particular, among others.

        “Oh, you disagree with the Glorious People’s Mandate? Off to the gulag with you, kulak.”

    • Howver, as Joe pointed out.

      There is a LOT of thinking on destroying civil society, due process, and murdering American citizens by the truckloads and explictily putting anyone else into camps.

  12. Not included in the plan, revolvers, pump action shotguns or lever action rifles.

    It’s like a poorly written plot to bring back the “Wild West” based on a complete lack of understanding on the subjects of tactics, technology, or terminal ballistics.

    And seriously, “take no incoming fire” as the sole rules of engagement? In order to do that you would need at least a 4 to 1 “Government Raider” to “gun owner” to even have a hope of accomplishing that goal, along with detailed plans of homes, neighborhoods, communications lines, etc. Which means, if there are 80 million gun owners in the US, it would require 320 MILLION “Government Raiders” to effectively pull off this plan of massive simultaneous raids. I know the FedGov is bloated, but the total population of the US is only 330 million, so the math doesn’t add up.

    And basing this entire plan on legal gun sales means that there will be no criminals with guns acquired through other means targeted by this plan. It’s like saying, “here Cartels, gangs, and mafia, help yourself to America”

    Then again, the math NEVER adds up in liberal versions of utopia and the belief in utopia requires the suspension of rational thought to begin with. But, I guess we now have the libtard response to Mike Vanderboughs “What I have learned from the 20th Century”

    • I suspect those “not included” guns would be included in V1.1 of the plan.
      But he can’t cover the home made guns, made after the bad guys go home. Philip Luty’s web site is still around, and even if it is taken down, the knowledge is pretty basic and won’t go away. So long as artisans in the Khyber Pass area can crank out AK47 copies in one room dirt floor shacks, with basically a vise and a file for tools, guns are never going away. And even simpler is the “bang stick” found in one of Clancy’s novels.

      • Even should the cops manage to confiscate every single firearm, the police still have guns, and in such a situation, a single compound bow will get a rebel at least one firearm and a box of ammo.

        • You presume much. Not the least is that the politicians will permit the “police” as currently-constituted to retain their firearms.

          “You’re safer without your gun. Thanx bye.”
          Sure the criminals are still armed… that wasn’t the point. The new Federal Security Police can deal with that… once we determine who’s loyal to The Republic, The Party, and who’s not.
          Until then, our Security Contractors will fulfill the role of armed response providers.
          First target will be police who don’t comply with total firearm disarmament. For the rest of you sworn officers?
          Here’s your Taser, Binaca breath spray, and Asp baton… oh, and your Metropolitan hat and whistle.
          Cheery-o old chappy, off you go… and don’t forget your lime-yellow reflective vest-o-authority.

          Why? Well… your usefulness is limited.
          Try gunning down enraged 300 pound strong-arm robber young black men without a gun.
          Or old black men, running from a traffic stop, over a taillight violation.
          You got shot by some bangers? Beat-down by a crew?
          Ask yourself this:
          a) are you black?*
          b) do you matter?**

          * if-yes, you’re a sell-out Uncle Tom, see below
          ** no, no you don’t, not now, as we “got the guns” including yours

          In the long run? It’s all the fault of the NRA, old racist conservative redneck white men, who clung to their guns and religion for a century too long. That’s why you’re one of the little people, a statistic, a mere footnote to the telling of a greater, progressive, liberal re-writing of Amerikan History. Of how we, finally, put the Government over the people, as it is, in all of the world.
          We’re no longer the laughingstock. We too tax our corporations and citizens above 50% of income.
          We too have cameras and audio, everywhere.
          We too filter the internet and phones, blocking subversive content, and keeping a list of who’s naughty or nice. We’re finally in lockstep with “all the other first world industrial nations” and have done away with the old party names.
          You can vote Social Democrat, or Labour Progressive.

          THAT is the masturbatory dream of the anti-gunners, fully fleshed-out.
          After Hillary gets her turn… and helps her Corporatist peers ensure this is going to happen.

  13. This would actually make a fairly decent novel, with the bullsheiss he posted as the preamble. Not unlike something that John Wesley Rawles might write. Of course, this tirade kind of peters out just where things would start to get interesting.

  14. How many of those “guardsmen” are oathkeepers, or owners of the same type gun being confiscated? How many have kin they’d quietly warn about it? I predict a lot of “holes” in this story… 😉

    • “How many have kin they’d quietly warn…”

      Another questions might be:
      How many would turn their guns on the commanding officer, and federal bureaucrats, who gave such an order, then leave with as much equipment, including what the military terms AA&E (Arms Ammunition & Explosives) as possible, to then join the “resistance” ?

    • Remember the gun grabbing after Katrina? The question is how many would refuse right from the start? I suspect very few. I think it would take a few squads vanishing, or found hanging from lightpoles, to get their attention. Might have to progress further, to shine some light on the subject.
      Hopefully, they are a lot more aware of the consequences of getting involved in gun grabbing, than they were 10 years ago. Unfortunately, there will always be some percentage willing to follow ANY orders.

      • I was in the 82nd during Katrina. Our CSM said that we will not wear our helmets, just our berets and we will take casualties before we harm or kill a US civilian. And we didn’t. Not a single civilian weapon was confiscated by us. The police and other local agencies did but they were few in number.

      • People seem to be missing the moral of that story as time goes on. The gun grabbing at Katrina was the birth of the Oathkeepers, when the Utah National Guard did make it clear that they were prepared to refuse this order. And backing up redleg above, one of the issues that Utah NG had was that they heard that Big Army was there with the 82nd, in what they felt was a clear violation of posse comitatus, requiring a lot of backchannel communication assuring the NG that the 82nd would NOT be there to take any guns to prevent a, well, misunderstanding.

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  16. For the record, I know the fellow who wrote that. He’s one of the pro-2A people there.

    It was a satirical exercise to explain to the rest of the Koskyites how they would have to go full-Fascist to get what they really want on guns. With the “Do you REALLY want to do that?!” being the implied message.

    And to draw out the fools who really DO ‘want to do that’.

    And it worked…. in spades.

    They always go for the bait…..

    • That explains some things. It explains why they knew about 4473’s. Ignorance of such things is almost always a prerequisite of being an anti-gunner.

      • “they” as in the author quoted, might have quite a resume of firearms, tactical experience, and arcane knowledge.
        “they” may also revel in poking at the ignorance and blind justifications held by both extremes in the debate.

        Seriously? There’s only a few, probably less than a dozen persons on Daily Kos who advocate for a “Violent Statist solution to the American gun problem” – but they do exist.

        The others? Employ memes, fantasies, falsehoods, and fallacy arguments.

        For both, it’s largely political point scoring – for now.
        Both violent statists and the meme posse admit that suicide probably won’t lessen, just **gun** suicide. As-if getting mangled by a train is “kinder to the family”. Having seen it dozens of times, I’ll assure you it’s not.

        Both will admit that it’s not going to end gang violence.
        That gangs, and drugs, and guns will continue for at least a decade if not more. 20 kilos of cocaine weigh just about as much as 20 Taurus M92 pistols. If you can smuggle one in from Columbia, the other can be brought from Brazil.

        That’s not the goal. “Doing something” is.
        The other thing, the one they’re not really going to admit, unless you really poke them hard?
        It’s ALL about sticking it to the male, straight, conservative, spittle-flecked bible-thumping gay-hating, anti-abortion, anti-Progressive, guns-and-religion clinging stereotypical redneck NRA member.

        Scratch them hard, and they’ll spew how you’re “just like” someone in their life. Parent, sibling, ex-friend, teacher, priest – someone who damaged them – and possibly owned a gun, or voted “conservative straight male”. So this IS personal, and it IS payback.

        Getting them from theory to action and the costs of that action?
        Is what that “diary” was all about.
        Most remain deluded. “Both parties will just get rid of the guns.”
        No political compromise required.
        Yep. Right before the political and business elite leave for Belize or the Caymans, and we tank as an economy.
        They’ll depend on municipal or state police, and private security contractors to ensure their safe departure.
        No random civilian guns would assist that greatly.

        For that dozen others? My little diatribe didn’t go far enough.
        Drones, bombs, Shock and Awe™, whatever the cost… have it piled on the sidewalk before we come for it, be laying face down spread-eagle, or catch a bullet, bomb or grenade for thinking you were somehow entitled to a gun.

        Unless your a gang banger, then we’re sorry for the shitty home, education, and neighborhood you’re in. Carry on.
        We need you for our next paycheck… as the War on Drugs (and now guns) pays really really well. But for now?
        We’re busy busting Cracker heads, so chillax, this ain’t about you.

  17. This plan dies in Act I, part I. When the first ATF agent dies mysteriously in a gun shop during a “robbery”, then they will be hell bent to investigate the dickens out of it. When two more have it happen, then you’ll find the other 4,997 ATF agents suddenly calling in sick.

    The other alternative, if the ATF is made of sterner stuff than they have ever shown (including Waco,) is that they change to squads of 12-18 per store. That will last until the first store has Uhaul trucks parked against the doors while the store burns down with them in it. Then they’ll all quit the agency.

  18. Pingback: The enemy leaks their battle plan

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