Quote of the Day
NSSF®, The Firearm Industry Trade Association, has confirmed with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) that the Demand 2 Program is ending. That program, begun in February of 2000 during the antigun Clinton administration, required federal firearms licensees (FFLs) that have 25 or more firearms traced back to them subsequent to the recovery at a crime scene and the time from retail sale to trace is three years or less (what ATF calls “time-to-crime”). NSSF has been critical of the misuse of this protected firearm trace data to attempt to “name-and-shame” firearm retailers for crimes in which they had no involvement.
NSSF
June 13, 2025
NSSF Confirms ATF Demand 2 Program is Ending • NSSF
If you spend about three seconds thinking about this program, you realize that large retailers could have a very low rate of guns showing up at a crime scenes but frequently trip the threshold for getting a less than friendly visit from the ATF. And at the same time someone who sells eight guns a year and they all end up at crime scenes would not get “the visit.”
As is almost always the case with anti-gun advocates and politicians, it is never about crime reduction. It is about raising the cost, in money and time, of gun sales and ownership.
This infringement program has been in place for more than 25 years. It is long past the time the criminals involved should have been prosecuted. That probably will never happen in this case, but at least the program is winding down.
See also ATF Begins Overhauls Directed by President’s 2A Executive Order • NSSF.
When I worked at the gun shop. The ATF would do traces for no reason whatsoever.
I imagine just to keep their numbers up.
Had an older retiree that bought, shot, and sold a lot of guns. (That’s how he entertained himself. And he was as straight arrow as they gets.
He bought an AR-10, shot it a bunch, then put it on consignment.
I re-sold it to a guy.
The ATF called in a trace on the gun. (ATF gives you the date and year the firearm was transferred to your shop.) I went to the book and then pulled out Norm’s 4473. Read it off to the agent over the phone.
Then I remembered I had re-sold the gun.
Told the agent that I had re-sold the firearm and that I would go get the latest 4473 as I didn’t want to get Norm in trouble if the gun had been used in a crime.
The agent’s answer. No, what we have is good, thank you, click.
No crime. Just more government make-work shit detail to justify a bigger budget.
The ATF is just a political tool of communism.
And communism is a crime against humanity.
DOGE needs to get rid of the A,T, and F, parts. Complete elimination.
And roll E part into the FBI.
The government has no grant of duty under law to regulate bearable arms. Period, End. Full stop.
Exactly this. “Time to Crime” is a dishonest label of the nature of the metric. Grandma turning in an old revolver is recorded by this metric the same way as a recovery in commission of a crime.
A trace of a particular revolver tossed into a dumpster by an abused girlfriend should have been reported as a zero, since the crime occurred when the 4473 was signed.
Why would the BATFE* be tracing a random gun? If it were found at a crime scene, they’d want the whole record including the most current information (the newest 4473). If it wasn’t found at a crime scene, how did they get the serial number to run a trace?
Something is fishy about that call, above and beyond “government make-work” inefficiency.
And I agree: The ‘E’ functions can be rolled into the FBI. The ‘A’, ‘T’, and ‘F’ parts should become a nationwide chain of convenience stores. And the ‘B’ should go away entirely.
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* – I never refer to them as the ATF, for two reasons: First, they are not cool enough for a three-letter acronym like the big kids have. Second, if they’re going to behave like unruly, disobedient children, we can call them by their full names.
That convenience store already exists, just east of Kingman, AZ. ATFConvenience Store, also home of MOA Targets. If you’re in the area, stop by and say hello to Mitch.
I’m supposing that at some point, ganja will be legalized at the federal level, either legislatively or because someone will come up with a legal argument regarding failure to enforce.
There may be some other drugs that get legalized.
So, take the A and the T and put them together with the Recreational Pharmaceuticals into an agency for things that aren’t good for you, not nutritious, but won’ kill you immediately or directly. Stick that under the FDA so at least the quality, purity, concentration and measurements are regularized. (Then, being legal things to buy, their use can be a factor in life and health insurance rates without being an admission of a crime… and using unregulated junk would be a great way to get your insurance cancelled.)
They can be the Recreational Pharmaceuticals, Tobacco and Alcohol Agency. (RPharTAA)
F and E need to be moved to Dept of Commerce, but tech branch goes to Dept of Defense as a shop for documenting and analyzing arms for the purposes of potential procurement (and secondarily as the single recognized source of truth for legally describing things, all other terminology being a legal nullity.)
” If it wasn’t found at a crime scene, how did they get the serial number to run a trace?’
Manufactures send the BATF the serial number of the firearms they create, (Plus the 20% newly manufactured firearm tax), and what wholesaler it was sent to.
Wholesalers also send that information directly to BATF.
So, they know which FFL has a given firearm, and what date it was transferred to your FFL.
The FFL keeps a book that shows that firearm and date. And when it’s sold, the buyer and date of sale go down in the book on that line, along with a number that allows the FFL to go retrieve the 4473 from their files when needed.
The 4473’s have to be stored for 20 years, or can be surrendered to the ATF if you don’t want to store them.
Which all the big stores just do automatically. Buy a gun from Sportman’s warehouse, Bass pro, or the like?
Your 4473 went directly to the ATF.
Apparently, traces aren’t being done over just crimes. Many are made just to bump up numbers.
The second sentence of that quote makes no sense – as in, it is not a complete sentence. Even if you drop all the extraneous phrases, there is nothing that is the target of “… required that FFLs …”. Are they supposed to do something? Is something supposed to be done to them?
Does anybody know what it is supposed to say?