Tilting at windmills

On Saturday I ran across a question:

Gun control why don’t you believe in it?.?

If there were a gun control many kids and older people would still be alive, I think i know the reason why there is such a fight against controlling the who has guns, It all falls on macho men or men who think it makes them tough, It starts very early in a boys life playing with toy guns and computer war games or hunting games, They learn very young at how to kill, and they call it fun. Boys don’t know how to play a non killing game. Now there older but not smarter they join the services so they can kill real people and get away with it with a pat on the back for great job soldier! if the survive men come home injured They expect a great home coming and that the Veterans or any hospital will treat them free, Well some come home with a missing leg or arm, some come home with a messed up mind and cant fit in with the rest of society, The killing continues Some G I ‘s kill strangers some kill there family’s and some kill themselves either way they were trained to kill. Where are the Peace Makers Why cant young boys be taught a different way of life? Like learning about our world and how to make it more Energy wise Or how to build instead of blowing things up, Or how to love and not hate? How to share not be greedy . I do feel sad for all the young boys, But once they come home from the killing fields i have no feeling for them just disgust they were trained to kill and want to continue killing even if it cost them their lives, I cannot feel sorry for the wounded soldier he or she Asked for it, For the love of the GUN & love of the KILL This is a sick world filled with sick men, Take the guns away what is left? Little men with little minds .For all you out there that say the killing is to keep America safe , That’s a joke Other country’s say the same thing . I love my country but i love my sons more so i teach them to share and to feel an others pain early in their childhood I did my part for the good of my country and my sons know that a life is to be lived not killed.

I responded:

Your very first sentence presumes facts not in evidence. The fact is there is no evidence that says gun control has ever made society safer. Anyplace, anytime, anywhere–EVER!

The rest of the rant is equally lacking in facts. To be taken seriously opinions and beliefs must be based on facts. Nothing in this “question” is factual based and therefore is only worthy of scorn.

Source(s):

http://blog.joehuffman.org/2004/12/14/just-one-question
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/rr5214a2.htm

And got this email in response:

It is a fact that guns kill, It is another fact that kids are getting the Guns from home , It is also a fact that the killing of kids in this good old USA is done by the kids that get GUNS from home, You Joe are the example of what i’m talking about, The very firearms you hold dear, will someday kill maybe you’ll be the one who will be shot with your own dear firearm, You men cant see past your macho ways. there must be a better world after this life, If not i dont want to be a part of the human race, Even animals dont kill their own, unless he or she is brain damaged.

I responded with this:

People kill. Sometimes they use guns. Sometimes the killings are illegal. Sometimes the killings are justified. Sometimes the killings are praiseworthy.

Sometimes accidental deaths happen when people use guns.

There are two questions at issue.

1) Does restricting firearms make society a safer place? The answer is no. There is no evidence of this.

2) Is it legal for a government to ban firearms? The answer is no. The U.S. Supreme Court has ruled that the right to Keep and Bear Arms is an individual right that may not be infringed.

Just as freedom of speech and religion can be used for evil so can firearms. The only acceptable mitigations to this is to punish the individual people that abuse their freedoms. To infringe the freedoms of people that have done no wrong is immoral and illegal.

And if you think I’m macho then you haven’t spent any time around me, talked to my wife, children, friends, or even read my blog.

Facts. It’s what reality is made of. I suggest you check it out.

If you have a Yahoo! ID you can also answer her “question” by going here.

Update: She responded again.

Guns dont kill by themselfs Joe. But i get your drift, it will take God himself to make gun owners see that he gave life and he did not ask “man” to end life. We can disagree all day long, But guns kill, Man needs to become humble and value other lives as he does his own.

She is incoherent enough at this point that I think I will just let it drop at this point.

Update: The question has been deleted. I wonder why… 🙂

22 thoughts on “Tilting at windmills

  1. Agreed. The woman cannot even string together five words in a coherent sentence – any attempt to engage her in anything approximating a debate will only end amusement or tears, depending on your personal nature.

    Oh, and in other news, I was never permitted to own any toy firearms, first-person shooters, or hunting games… hell, I could not even have nerf toys. The closest I could get was StarCraft, and even that required parental allowances. And yet, today, I think it is fair to say that I would meet the hoplophobes’ definition of a “gun nut”, write a pro-rights weblog, and keep up with politicis and social events that impact my shooting hobby. So much for “it starts very early”.

  2. Yep, such incoherent logical fallacies, and glib presentation of them as if they’re undisputed fact proves that they are not the same in any way as you and I.

    I’ve spent a good deal of time on multiple blogs where the bloggers seem to express many of the same traits. I point out their contradictions, and disprove their “Facts” with boring regularity….and yet nothing changes.

    Honestly I don’t get it, I’ve been wrong in the past and had people show how wrong I was, and my reaction was shame, and furthermore I redoubled my efforts to fact-check my arguments before presenting them. (It can be frustrating at times, when I KNOW somebody is wrong, but I simply will not jump into the fray because I don’t have the proper resources behind me)

    These people do not seem concerned with the same things….and honestly I wonder if because of that they’re even relevant in today’s society.

  3. I’m with Linoge – Prior to buying my 1st Sig @ 21 I’d never even touched a firearm before, and I wasn’t allowed to own a BB Gun as a kid.

    That woman sounds almost illiterate and she’s clearly not even thinking about what you wrote before publishing her “response.”

    She seems to be one of those people who think that all men are capable of valuing the lives of others as they do their own. She cannot see that many men do not value their own lives, and consider the lives of others to be of even lesser value. She obviously doesnt realize that there are those in this world who will be violent and kill over the most trivial of matters.

    Experience has shown me that many like this woman cannot ever be reached with sound, rational arguments. They’ll never see reality and we can’t beat it into them.

  4. Her response is pretty standard stuff you’d get from watching daytime TV.

    No concept of self defense, as if all we have to do is hide our heads in the sand all will be rainbows and unicorns (but how would you see the rainbows and unicorns when your head is in the sand?). She seems to have something against men. There’s a self protection mechanism at work there– a fear of confronting reality. And some self-loathing mixed in, or at least a loathing of humanity; “…must be a better world after this life, If not i dont want to be a part of the human race…”

    This is someone who has retreated far back into a world of her imagination. Her lack of communication skills might suggest that she’s been a recluse for a very long time, or it might suggest, as was my initial impression, that she speaks English only as a second language.

    There’s certainly no point in talking with her any more, unless you just want to upset her.

  5. I wonder what’s she’s been smoking, where I could buy an ounce, and how much it costs?
    She reads like she’s been sampling a little too much of her own product.

  6. I have recently begun telling them that I cannot convince them and they cannot convince me.

    “Therefore, let me ask you this question, if you succeed in getting all guns banned and I say NO, what will you do?”

    Very telling responses that usually horrify any onlookers.

    sv

  7. A word to the lady: some animals do kill their own kind. Ever see ant colonies go at each other? Another “fact” she got wrong!

  8. Sadly that elevator doesn’t even get up to the point of cognition where a gun can protect the innocent from harm. You’re conversing with a mollusk.

  9. Sounds like a friend of mine when she hears anything arguing against AGW: damn near incoherent responses with little or no punctuation. And lots of “All the REAL scientists” crap.

  10. Terry,
    You’re right. Was it Mark Twain?
    “Never argue with an idiot. He’ll just drag you down to his level & beat you with experience.”

    As for that “woman”. I’d love to mark her residence with “a person who does not believe in guns lives here.” And then see her reaction when she’s robbed, and no one protects her from the big bad bully. Would she then become a conservative (a conservative is a liberal that’s been b-slapped by reality)? Probably not. She sounds too far gone into the drug and religion of Liberalism.

  11. ut i get your drift, it will take God himself to make gun owners see that he gave life and he did not ask “man” to end life.

    Hate to tell her this but she is wrong. God provided a whole laundry list of ‘sins’ where he expected and required man to end life. She may not be familiar with my source so I’ll clue her in where I found that information — the Bible.

    Man needs to become humble and value other lives as he does his own.

    I do value other lives as I do my own. I value the life of my wife, I value the lives of each of my children. I value the lives of my friends and family.

    I even value the life of any criminal trying to harm me or mine; that person doesn’t value his/her own life or they would never risk it. Is there anything that I own that is worth risking their life over? It is their decision to risk their life.

    Maybe she should head down to the inner city or where the gangs are, ask them to turn in their firearms. Tell them they should value the lives of others as they value their own.

  12. What REALLY impresses me is how hard her terrible little essay of hate and misinformation masquerading as a question is getting trounced in the answer section.

    It appears that the anti-gun forces are either too few, or too scared to add to this debate.

  13. I applaud your ability to translate the obviously foreign language she was using, because that sure as hell wasn’t “English”.

  14. “It appears that the anti-gun forces are either too few, or too scared to add to this debate.”
    They can’t add to it. They can only distract from it, and this is a very poor choice of venues in which to play the game of ‘ignore and redirect’. We’re on to them.

  15. “this is a very poor choice of venues in which to play the game of ‘ignore and redirect’.”

    Yep and that’s the only tool they have in their toolbox. There’s a lot to be said about that.

  16. So, by extension, following her line of reasoning, in the UK the steak knives must be grabbed up so little boys don’t learn how to use them. That way the crime by knife problem is solved. Damn those evil knives.

  17. Stephen – The problem with following a logical line of reasoning in order to make a comparison is that you’re dealing with whose minds are not in any way constrained by rational thought.

    I’m sure her response to your statement would be something similar to “Nuh Uh GUNS!!, Guns and knives aren’t the same thing”

  18. Until guns are effectivly banned, then the nanny state seeks to further neuter the populous.
    http://weerdbeard.livejournal.com/607657.html

    Just like how the various gun-banners say they don’t want to ban guns, just pass “Sensible Laws”….but if we give them that foothold they look to ban “evil” guns…then all guns….and then knives…then self defense in any form.

    Whatever it take for you to be dependent on them.

  19. Damn…I don’t like grammar nazis, but even a grammar anarchist would feel the need to sentence this woman to 6 years of remedial English.

    Please, Brady Bunch…hire her!!!

    On a serious note, I don’t think it’s coincidental that both her sentences and her thoughts are incoherent.

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