I have been exchanging email with Omie and Geoff over the last few days related to the article in the Daily News they collaborated on. The focus of the article was fully automatic firearms as they related to the recent high profile shooting at the courthouse which resulted in the death of a Moscow police officer and two other innocents. It was the belief for several weeks that one of the firearms was illegally converted from a semi-automatic to a full automatic. About two days after Omie and Geoff's article came out a different paper, the Lewiston Morning Tribune, reported there were no fully automatic firearms involved in the shooting. I can't imagine why it took weeks for law enforcement to make that determination but that is a different story.

I sent email to both Omie and Geoff after reading the article in the other paper. They had not been aware of the recent development until I pointed it out to them. I requested their permission to post our email exchanges but they both declined. My latest response to Omie closely relates to some recent posts of Lyle's and mine and Lyle encouraged me to post my email here. I had been planning to do that but just hadn't gotten around to it. I'm doing that now in the hopes it will help others in dealing with the bias against gun owners in terms than can be expressed constructively to those with the bias.

The first sentence is in response to Omie's request not to post her email to me on this blog. The second paragraph can be understood a little better if you know that it was not her intent to have the article be hostile to gun owners of any type. I believe that is true.

From: Joe Huffman
Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007
To: 'Omie Drawhorn'
Subject: RE: Hamilton's gun

 

I understand and will respect that.

 

My impression of the article was as you describe your intent. But things like "More restrictions or better enforcement could be key to questions about weapons" and even the assignment of "fully automatic" firearms allowed me to read additional things (rightly or wrongly) into the editorial mindset of the paper. As my friend Lyle pointed in a blog posting (http://blog.joehuffman.org/2007/07/05/Same+Template+Different+Story.aspx) yesterday the type of weapons is really the wrong focus for a follow-up article. Better would have been what went right, wrong, and what could be done differently in regards to the response and preparation for, what law enforcement calls, an "active shooter". For example, was Newbill wearing body armor? If so was it inadequate or irrelevant because of the shot placement? Should Hamilton have been in jail for previous crimes but was let out early for some reason? Did the responding officers follow their training for the information they had available to them at the time? If so could there have been better training that would have improved the outcome?

 

If the focus is on the gun then it seems to me someone has a solution in mind before they have a clear statement of the problem (see also this blog posting of mine from this morning: http://blog.joehuffman.org/2007/07/05/Understanding+The+Problem.aspx).

 

As an engineer I solve problems. One of the most common errors inexperienced engineers make is they jump to the solution before they have a good statement of the problem. The implied problem statement of the newspaper article was:

 

A criminal had a fully automatic firearm.

 

My statement of the problem would be something like:

 

A criminal with firearms attacked a building with people in it and responding law enforcement officers and private citizens were injured and killed.

 

The solutions problem solvers arrive at for the two different problem statements will be drastically different.

 

Is this making sense to you? I’m getting into “engineer talk” and worry non-engineers won’t see what I view as critical differences.

 

 

-joe-

In his article, Westen proudly displays his passport from Bizarroland, a place superficially similar to planet Earth, but where drooling idiots with hearts full of hate run amok absent guidance from their spiritual and intellectual betters in politics and academe.

...

I was waiting for the lizardoids to show up around paragraph seven or so and symbolically rape Gaia while carrying off Al Gore to be a slave on their homeworld, Karlrovia.

Tamara K.
July 5, 2007
*sniff* It's a thing of beauty.
[And so is Tam's snark a thing of beauty. I find myself quite pleased at all the attention given to The Gun Guy (Gonzo) email and the book and article by Drew Weston which was the basis of Gonzo's claim that emotion is what wins gun control arguments--not facts and logic. Here is a quick, perhaps partial, list of the chain of postings Gonzo's email triggered:

• Validation from the Left.
• *sniff* It's a thing of beauty.
• Call To Arms: Fight Fire With Fire
• Unforgiven
• Pants-shitting hysterics v. facts
• Facts are pesky things
• YGTBKM - Gun “Control” Edition
• Fisking More Self-Satisfied Crap

And from looking at my log files I see where Gonzo himself visited to see where I quoted him. The web is a wonderful thing.--Joe]

As a young engineer one of the most profound things every told to me was by my boss, Ken M.  Ken told me "You need to understand the problem before you can solve it." This is far more deep a statement than one might first realize. There is a strong tendency for people to advocate solutions rather solve problems. Examples my readers will immediately recognize include:

• Gun control: The anti-gun bigot push the solution then justify it by claiming will prevent crime. By doing this they "overlook" the possibility that guns in the hands of private citizens might reduce crime. The problem is criminals, not guns.
• National ID cards: The anti-freedom bigots push this solution claiming requiring ID for nearly every financial transaction, entry/exit from buildings, and checkpoints on streets and roads will make us safer. By doing this they overlook the fact that in the last century governments have killed far more of their own citizens than terrorists and criminals. ID cards and checkpoints have always been a tool of the tyrants. The problem is our safety is more at risk from tyrannical governments than it is from small groups and individuals.

 I don't believe most people really understand the problem of terrorist attacks. Here is a hint:

With doctors in custody over attempted terrorist attacks in London and Glasgow, British police have now discovered a group of 45 Muslim doctors threatened an attack in the U.S. with car bombs and rocket grenades.

The threat was found in an Internet chat room run by Younis Tsouli, 23, of London, one of three members of a "cyber-terrorist" gang, according to the Daily Telegraph of London.

One message read: "We are 45 doctors and we are determined to undertake jihad and take the battle inside America.

"The first target which will be penetrated by nine brothers is the naval base which gives shelter to the ship Kennedy."

The reference apparently is to the USS John F. Kennedy and its home port, the Mayport Naval Base in Jacksonville, Fla., the Telegraph said.

The message discussed targets at the base, including gasoline tanks and "clubs for naked women." 

It also referred to using six Chevrolet GT vehicles and three fishing boats to carry out the attacks.

I'd like a response on this from those who say we just need to contain them or that Christian extremists are just as bad.

...is security just an excuse for any random thing these days?

Bruce Schneier
July 5, 2007
School Uniforms to Enhance Security?
[Yes. Look at gun control, unconstitutional and ineffective searches at our airports, national ID cards, etc.--Joe]

Reading Joe's recent post got me thinking.  Every time there's a shooting, we see reports on the type of firearm used, its features, where it may have been obtained, and what gun laws might "prevent this sort of thing" in the future.  Given that criminals by definition don't obey gun laws, and that this sort of thing isn't going to be prevented by more Prohibitions, what sort of reporting might actually benefit the consumers of news reports?  Newsies: I'm asking you to think outside the usual story templates.

News pieces on the firearm models and types used in a particular crime are unhelpful, mostly because they're useless unless you're pushing an anti-gun agenda (one exception might be the LA bank robbery, in which police responded to a rifle fight with nothing but pistols and shotguns. There the types of weapons involved were actually relevant to the response tactics) and also because the reporting is typically done by people who know next to nothing about firearms (believe me, Newsies, it shows.  It really, really shows).  I submit that the public could benefit more from reports on exactly what happened from minute to minute, once all the hysteria has died down and the evidence has been evaluated.  Interview police and citizen defense trainers on what responses would be most appropriate, how the police view the role of the armed citizen, and so on.  Then we may be better able to respond to an incident more appropriately, or to stay out of it entirely when needed.

For certain, I think its a bad idea to grab a gun and run head-on toward the sound of gunfire.  Stealth, People.  Also consider the fact that it may be impossible to know friend from foe when there are armed citizens in the same area as armed criminals.  Start a discussion on when to stay out of the way, or, if presented an easy shot on a hostile target, when to take it, where to get the training and equipment, what would the police chief or sheriff's department would want you to do?  You might let us know where to sign up for a local gun club, range development plan or self-defense course, and so on.  "Public Interest" in other words, could be served by some far more diverse reporting.

My previous post, Quote of the Day--The Gun Guys, about anti-gun bigots demanding people use emotion to win arguments and their agenda in legislatures, deserves more attention. His email was inspired by Despite Large Majorities, Democrats Are Chicken on Gun Control by Drew Westen.

Weston claims people are at their most basic and inescapable level not logical. I'll grant that he is not but nearly everything he says just does not compute with me. I associate him and his viewpoints with death and evil. I associate great emotion with the great evils of the world. Every genocide, the burning of "witches", the war against us by Islamic extremists, racism, domestic abuse--the list is almost endless. Strong emotions and the exclusion of facts and logic have played a huge role in the killings of millions of innocent people. To endorse emotion as a means of "finding your moral compass" as Weston apparently endorses is flat out wrong.

Reading this article was about as pleasant as shoveling fresh cow manure out of a unventilated barn on a hot day (I've actually done this--it's not for people with weak stomachs). Weston has the gall to claim facts are unimportant. Emotion is what is important and he claims this as a fact. There is no hypocrisy in his world view is there?

I was going to just ignore Weston's factual errors in regards to gun laws but I can't. Weston's tries to convince us with facts and logic that facts and logic aren't important. But he is so careless with facts that even if we were to overlook his hypocritical argument we just can't trust him. Each time he erroneously states a "fact" it's like he just broke out another window on his airplane. His argument is so drafty that no reasonable person could tolerate the ride even if his plane could get off the ground.

Here is a sample of the factual errors:

• The Brady Act restricted the sale of "assault weapons" -- Wrong. It was the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act passed in 1994.
• The Brady Act caused 100,000 felons to loose their right to bear arms -- Wrong. Convicted felons had that right infringed in 1968 with GCA68.
• Hunters have a right to own firearms -- The right to own firearms has nothing to do with hunting.
• The National Rifle Association supports semiautomatics for felons -- Wrong.
• The National Rifle Association supports unrestricted access to automatic weapons -- Wrong.
• There exists some set of firearms "designed for no other purpose than to take another person's life" -- I suppose it's possible but I've never seen or heard of such a gun.

I will grant Weston has a point in that emotion is a "card" politicians can and do play with great effect regardless of the facts and logic of reality. But this is not the way it should be. Emotions should be used by politicians to gain support for that which is true and logical. The "dispassionate mind", which Weston apparently despises, should be the beginnings of any endeavor which has the luxury of at least a small amount of time devoted to planning. From the basis of what is true and good one can build up a web of logic and reach conclusions that will resonate and create passion. One should not start and end with conclusions and passion. To do that is to invite error into our thinking and that is why I see Weston and his ilk as enablers of death and evil.

Emotion is what wins arguments, and there is a tremendous amount of emotion among those fighting to reduce gun violence -- there always is when someone gets hurt or must go through the tragedies that we experience in this country as a result of gun violence.

...

That is important emotion, and it will do more for the argument for stronger gun laws than any facts or figures ever will.

...

We have to show legislators the human side of this issue, too, and force them to base their own decisions and policies off of that emotion...

The Gun Guys (actually the paid anti-gun, anti-freedom, activist Gonzo)
Email from June 26, 2007
[There you have it. Just what we have been saying for years. The facts don't really matter. What matters is emotion. They know the facts don't support their agenda. The number of innocents dead, wounded, raped, and robbed is irrelevant as long as someone feels good about removing the tools of self defense from those victims. And they need to force legislators to base their decisions off of that same sick mindset.--Joe]

From the National Shooting Sports Foundation (NSSF) we get this warning:

The Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA), the government agency charged with assuring the safety and health of America's workers, is proposing a regulatory rule affecting the manufacturing, transportation and storage of small arms ammunition, primers and smokeless propellants.

As written, the proposed rule would force the closure of nearly all ammunition manufacturers and force the cost of small arms ammunition to skyrocket beyond what the market could bear—essentially collapsing our industry. This is not an exaggeration. The cost to comply with the proposed rule for the ammunition industry, including manufacturer, wholesale distributors and retailers, will be massive and easily exceed $100 million. For example, ammunition and smokeless propellant manufacturers would have to shut down and evacuate a factory when a thunderstorm approached and customers would not be allowed within 50 feet of any ammunition (displayed or otherwise stored) without first being searched for matches or lighters.

There is something you can do to stop this:

Click here for a template letter. If you choose to draft your own letter, the reference line must read as follows:

RE: Docket No. OSHA–2007–0032
Request to Extend Public Comment Period and Request for Hearing on "Significant Regulatory Action" as Defined in Executive Order 12866

Please fax the letter to: 202-693-1648 (include the docket number and Department of Labor/OSHA on the cover sheet and in the reference section of your letter).

Please e-mail the letter by visiting: http://www.regulations.gov and following the submission instructions.

I don't have the time to read it right now but I wonder if OSHA is proposing something to the effect that I will have to move my reloading bench out to the Taj Mahal or a similar facility. It would be a pain but I could do it. Expect people to set up storage businesses catering to reloaders if such a thing comes about. It's total BS of course so we need to do our best to stop this now rather than just mitigate the damage once they get such an oppressive regulation in place.

Last week I took a reporter (Omie) and photographer (Geoff) for the Daily News to the range. Full automatic firearms was the topic. I didn't have any but I showed them an AR-15 and taught them to shoot it. Omie told me one of the firearms used by Jason Hamilton a few weeks ago was converted from semi-auto to full-auto. I was skeptical but hadn't really stayed up on the topic. It's non-trivial to do the conversion and generally you don't expect losers like Hamilton to have the brain-power and/or strength of will to follow through on something like that.

At least from the editorial standpoint it was pretty clear to me the article was intended to be a hit-piece on owners of machine guns with undercurrents of hostility toward owners of semi-auto firearms. It now turns out both the firearms used by Hamilton were semi-auto. From the Lewiston Morning Tribune:

Gun in Moscow shooting was a semiautomatic

July 2, 2007, 11:04 am

MOSCOW -- The AK-47 Jason Hamilton used in his May 19-20 shooting spree is semiautomatic, not fully automatic as was earlier reported by officials investigating the case.

Sgt. Ed Westbrook with the Idaho State Police confirmed Monday that the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms has determined the gun is a semiauto, which fires one bullet with each trigger pull.

Westbrood said he didn't know how the AK-47 was initially thought to be fully automatic, which would keep firing as long as the trigger is depressed.

Hamilton used that gun and a semiautomatic Springfield M1A rifle to assault the Latah County Courthouse late in the evening on May 19, firing nearly 200 rounds. He killed Moscow police officer Lee Newbill and church caretaker Paul Bauer before killing himself early in the morning of May 20.

Hamilton had also killed his wife at their home east of Moscow before driving to town to start his shooting spree.

I'm wondering if the Daily News will now publish a correction on their article from Saturday. The entire premise of their article was based on a falsehood. I just wish I knew when the ATF released the info on the gun in question. Did the Daily News have access to that prior to publishing the hit-piece? Of course if they did know that it would probably have just changed the focus from a hit piece on full-auto to a hit-piece on semi-auto firearms. But it would have also completely changed my discussion and interaction with Omie and Geoff.

It looks like Ry and I have some more testing to do. We just make fireballs when we could make fuel-air explosives. We've known about F-A explosives for a long time but it's a much tougher problem than the fireballs. You need some very good timing on the second explosive charge.

Maybe someday--certainly not for this 4th of July.

If you want to try and impose the Fairness Doctrine, then just admit you’re not a big believer in capitalism and the free marketplace of ideas.

Cam Edwards
June 27, 2007
The Nanny Doctrine
[The advocates for the McCain-Feingold Act should admit the same thing.--Joe]

Airport "security" is all "security theater". It is all for show and doesn't really make us any safer. But it does make some people feel better. They really should investigate some alternatives but the sheeple would whimper and cry for mommy to protect them or something. And so as part of this show they made a big deal of requiring government issued photo ID before you could fly on a commerical flight. As if that made a difference somehow. Well... they've quietly backed off on that requirement:

Turns out there is no requirement that you produce a photo ID when you travel on a commercial airplane.

Originally, the TSA's Web site stated, "You must present a Boarding Pass and a Photo ID to get to the checkpoint and to your gate."

The latest TSA Web site language, however, states: "We encourage each adult traveler to keep his/her airline boarding pass and government-issued photo ID available until exiting the security checkpoint [children are not required to show identification]. The absence of proper identification will result in additional screening."

The TSA spokeswoman confirms: "If a passenger doesn't have one, like yourself, because it was lost, which does happen, then we do subject them to additional screening."

I got an email from Scotty who is the current head of the Palouse Pink Pistols (Moscow-Pullman area). He is looking for someone to take over the position. Duties are:

...basically, take over the PP E-mail addy. try and organize get together and so forth. keep an eye on whats happening. pretty low energy.

I have way too much on my plate as it is and can't take on anything new. If someone wants take over for him send me an email (p3@joehuffman.org) and I'll forward it on.

Phil has a post up about the recent Supreme Court ruling on using race as a criteria for determining which school a child is to attend. The commies in the Seattle media and schools are going nuts and Phil takes them to task:

Leave the social work to the social workers. Schools are a place where instruction is supposed to happen. The only real lessons that the Seattle School District seem to favor are those of “If you’re not white or Asian you will need the government’s help or you will never succeed” and “If you are white or Asian, you’re only succeeding because of privilege” being taught in all twelve grades.

Disgusting.

This reminds me of when my son James took an honors level sociology class as a freshman in college. The first assignment was to write an essay on how the luck of his birth (white, male, upper middle class) enabled him to get into this “special” class. He wrote that it wasn’t luck. He had worked hard and gotten A’s in every class since the fourth grade. He got a “D” on that assignment. We counseled him he had three options. 1) Drop the class; 2) Suck it up and take the grade even though he knew he was right; 3) Make a big stink about it with her, and if necessary, the administration; 4) Give her what she wanted even when he knew it was flat out wrong. It was his choice to make but we would support whichever route he choose. He choose 4) and got an “A” in the class and to this day we refer to that class as the "socialism class".

Choosing to give the instructor what she wanted was probably his mother’s influence. I had numerous similar things happen when I was in grade school but usually in science and math classes. I always went with 2) or 3). I always got very high scores on standardized tests and occasionally the results were literally "off the chart" but my grades were only a little above average. Sometimes you pay a price for being right.

I feel like a school boy anticipating his first piece of tail.

Rick Butte
June 29, 2007
[Referring to his anticipation of Boomershoot 2008.--Joe]

Xenia has her own collection of pictures from the vacation and family reunion last week. She has a little different viewpoint than I did. Plus, she has better pictures.

It's happening in the U.K. and it will be happening here before long:

‘Firebomb’ car rams terminal at 30mph

The first afternoon of the Scottish school holidays meant the terminal at Glasgow airport was packed with families queuing at check-in desks.

Outside the building’s glass doors travellers waiting to be collected saw an erratically driven dark green Jeep Cherokee approach at speed. The Asian driver began to rev the engine furiously before wrenching the wheel and smashing the tough four by four vehicle directly into the terminal building.

Security bollards blocked the path of the vehicle as the driver tried to ram the main doors. The air became heavy with the stench of petrol. Driver and passenger, described as burly Asian men, leapt from the vehicle and it burst into flames.

Airport staff described the men as screaming “Allah” as the driver doused the burning vehicle with more fuel soaking himself in the process. His passenger began to smash bottles of petrol and his own clothes now ablaze the driver fell to the floor as police, passengers and airport staff reacted.

I had a discussion with someone recently who agreed "we have a problem" with Muslim extremists but disagreed on the solution. He insisted we just need to "contain" them. He also worried about Christian extremists too. Really? How should have the people in the U.K. "contained" the extremist Muslims bombers? And could someone give me a list of the video taped civilian beheadings and suicide bombings committed by "Christian extremists" in the last year? I have a number of issues worthy of discussion with "Christian extremists" but killing large numbers of innocent people isn't one of them.

We need to destroy their culture. Porn for peace!

Yesterday the Daily News ran the article they were working on about fully automatic firearms. I posted about the trip to the range with the reporter and the photographer on Thursday. The article itself is very factual and I would say unbiased--given the assignment of writing about full autos in the context of a multiple homicide. The "More restrictions or better enforcement..." part was probably put in by the editor and illustrates how you can get screwed by just one bigot in the pipeline of people the information flows through. Most of the article requires a fee to access on-line but here is the part visible for free:

Geoff Crimmins/Daily News
Joe Huffman of Moscow fires his STI Eagle semi-automatic competition pistol at a shooting range on Lenville Road south of Troy on Thursday. Huffman is a gun-rights activist and NRA certified instructor.

Fully automatic; More restrictions or better enforcement could be key to questions about weapons

Jason Hamilton was armed with a semi-automatic weapon and an automatic weapon when he went on a killing spree in Moscow in May.

When the shooting spree ended, four people were dead, three were injured and 185 bullet casings littered the parking lot of the Latah County Courthouse and the inside of the First Presbyterian Church across the street.

Despite that fact, some people say there are enough restrictions for automatic weapons to keep the firearms from being readily available and used in crimes.

Geoff Crimmins/Daily News
Joe Huffman loads ammunition into a clip for his AR-15 carbine at a shooting range south of Troy on Thursday.

Geoff Crimmins/Daily News
Joe Huffman explains how to line up the sights of a gun on a target at a shooting range south of Troy on Thursday.

It's not easy to see in the picture here, it's much more visible in the dead tree version, but there are three shell casings in the air in the first picture. One just above the chamber of my pistol, one that appears to be in front of my eyes, and one just off the point of my chin. I estimated I was firing about three rounds per second. All hit the target. Nearly all were in the A with a few in the C zone of the IPSC target. The picture shows me leaning backward a great deal and it seems the pistol has recoiled a great deal more than is actually the case. I'm certain the camera wasn't parallel to the ground and that I was actually leaning into the shots. The target was probably only about three and a half feet high at the "shoulder" instead of the typical five feet.

The loading the clip picture came about because I was fighting the battle against calling gun magazines clips. My son James says the battle is over and it is lost but I keep trying and explained the difference to Omie and Geoff. They got the caption to the picture right but I'm not sure it helped my cause any.

Some good has come about from the article already--I received an email from someone who saw the article and wondered where the range was and how to join. He will probably be showing up at the IPSC match later today with his application in hand.

Just a few short months ago, I was still caught between the walls of the positive-thought-is-all-we-need-to follow box; Now I am a gun owner, and I am positively far more capable of making sure no uninvited violence enters my home. Without the freedom to reach for a weapon of my choice, I play a less-than-active part against violence; with that freedom, I get to participate in my own life, and in those of those I love.

Colleen Lawson
June 24, 2007
Don't Call Me a Gun Lover
Via Kevin's post But I Will Call You My Ally.
[She has some things to say about Jesse Jackson too.--Joe]

Today is a good day. I got the last of the new ammonium nitrate stored away at the Taj Mahal. I even had room for one more bag:

I wasn't watching really close since I was on vacation and it will take me a little bit of effort to figure out exactly when Boomershoot 2008 filled up but it is completely full now. This is ten months before the actual event! There will be some cancellations so send me an email if you want to be put on the waiting list.

Just a few minutes ago I completed the last of the important electrical work and have verified it is all working correctly (this blog post is made from the Taj Mahal using the new power supply for the WiFi access point Boomershoot2).

There's nothing but red-necked, knuckle-dragging, Neanderthals living in Idaho. Those cretins marry their cousins, they let kids play with guns, the women are ugly, and they even play with explosives. People from places like California, Florida, and Chicago who visit should just spend their tourist dollars quickly and go home before they get shot or something. I just got back from vacation and have the photographic evidence:

Phones like this are still in active use (my parents ring is three shorts). I had to explain to the tourists how to use this one at the Powell Ranger Station.

The plants are damaged. It's probably from all the gunfire and exposives nearby.

Children with assault weapons!

More guns and kids!

Me, the Cease Fear Instructor--Gays and Queers take note.

I think this is supposed to be the state flower or something.


Just over the border into Montanna near Lolo Hot Springs

Caleb on the rocks above Lolo Hot Springs.

Caleb and Kim above Lolo Hot Springs.

Daughter Kimberly Joe at Johnsons Bar on the Selway river. This is what you get when cousins (Barb and I) have kids.

Johnsons Bar on the Selway River. White water is dangerous you know.

Caleb and Kim. Can you tell they are going to be married soon?

Nancy says the scar on her nose doesn't show nearly as much as it used to. She probably got it while in a fight with her sister Barbara over who was going to marry their cousin Joe.

Tourists from Chicago and Florida spending money.

The guide took their money and led them off into the woods. I haven't seen or heard from the tourists since.

Another example of when cousins have kids. Daughter Xenia whose expression says, "Don't bug me when I'm taking pictures."

Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err. It passes my comprehension how human beings, be they ever so experienced and able, can delight in depriving other human beings of that precious right.

Mahatma Gandhi
[Closely related is Erich Fromm's "There can be no real freedom without the freedom to fail.” Those that advocate gun control or claim health care is a right need to study a bit more philosophy.--Joe]

Terrorists generally select targets where they can cause most damage, inflict mass casualties or attract widespread publicity. VBIEDs can be highly destructive.

National Counter Terrorism Security Office (U.K.)
Police explosives experts prevent carnage at the Tiger Tiger Club
[Just in case you have forgotten, I gave you the minimum evacuation distances for Vehicle-Borne Improvised Explosive Devices (VBIEDs) here. It's only a matter of time before we see them in the U.S. You should be prepared.--Joe]