I received an email the other day:
Hello Joe.
My name Is Yachdav. I’m part of an Israeli team that developed a unique gun lock called ZORE X.
Our bullet shaped lock prevents the gun from being charged and when unlocked it ejects by just charging the gun. It also notifies the gun owner if someone tampers with their gun. Is this something you’d write / post about?
We believe ZORE X will save many lives by both preventing unauthorized use of guns and at the same time making guns more accessible for their gun owners when they need them.This is our website: http://zore.life/
This is 1 minute a video showing our lock: http://zore.life/youtubeI’m attaching some material about us. I’d be happy to send you more information about ZORE if you’d like.
Thank you very much,
Yachdav
I watched the video and was bit annoyed with the falling brass without primers from the simulated gunfire but my only real concern was battery life and how they handle the dead battery situation. I read their FAQ and found:
What if my battery runs out, will my gun disable with no way of opening it?
No.
- Your battery will last for more than a year.
- Three months before your battery drains, ZØRE will send you notifications, reminding you to change your battery.
- One month before the battery drains, when unlocking ZØRE, it will not allow you to re-lock without changing the battery.
- In addition, you are able to set your ZØRE to open automatically before draining out.
- If your battery drains out nonetheless, you are able to connect an external battery to give it power, enabling you to dial your code and open it.
And:
What if someone removes the battery from my ZORE?
That is impossible – as long as your gun is locked, no one can remove the battery from your ZORE. The battery is only accessible when ZORE is open.
The battery is accessible only when ZØRE is open. Therefore, when your gun is locked, no one can take the battery out of your ZØRE.
All my concerns about “smart guns” (this isn’t really a smart gun, but it achieves some of the worthy goals of them) were well addressed except for the potential to have them become government mandated. I liked the phone app that tells you if someone has moved (probably accelerometer based, it doesn’t use GPS) your gun. The app also allows you to unlock the gun remotely and helps you train to get to your gun and unlock it quickly.
It would appear to be a good solution for many situations.
Update: I received another email after they read my blog post above. Here is most of the email:
It is important for me to say that the option of government mandating it is something we gave a lot of thought to.
We wanted to make sure there’s no [way] to force anyone to use it – that’s how we came to the conclusion we must separate the lock from the gun itself (or from the magazine – anything that’s involved in actually using the gun).
We’re a company that strongly believes in freedom – and ZORE X’s market is people who make the choice of locking their gun, enabling them a reliable and fast to remove solution. For those who don’t lock their gun – ZORE X is irrelevant. We are making a notification-only device that might be relevant for some of those people – but we intentionally avoided making a products that could [not] bring with it any type of legislation.
I’m attaching pictures of the ZORE Watchdog.
Thanks again,
Yachdav
I don’t really want to have to screw around with a gun lock when what I need is a loaded gun.
If the gun is loaded, it’s under my control.
On the rare occasions when I don’t have the gun under my control, it’s in the safe.
No problem, therefore no “solution” needed.
It’s as simple as that and it’s nobody else’s place to say otherwise.
“… Shall not be infringed.”
Period.
I don’t have a use for one either. But some people might. I think it is an clever innovation that probably fills a market niche.
I will go with the obvious issue pointed out already…mandates and requirements.
Once it is mandated, guess what, those goalposts move and ever more intrusive devices or gimmicks will be required. They will NEVER be satisfied until the only people with guns are those in the hands of government stooges.
Since it has the capability to transmit, I would assume it has the ability to receive. Enter the hackers and the government to hack, crack, jam, fold, spindle and mutilate it whenever they feel like leaving you defenseless; like on the eve of a crackdown on dissidents (e.g. Christians, patriots, conservatives).
All this to solve the rare issue of unauthorized firearm use. Sure, a few get into the hands of toddlers with disastrous results, but that is the rare exception. I suspect that these are outweighed by the person who uses another person’s firearm to end a violent crime.
I am so tired of the “smart” gun idea. It can never be made to work because it will always be ripe for abuse by those who want us disarmed. It’s a Trojan Horse people. Recognize it for what it is and reject completely.
Read the FAQ. It’s a Bluetooth device so the range is limited. And the manual operation of it overrides the electronics. If you have physical control of the device and the combination then the wireless path is irrelevant.
I’m totally against government mandates. But I’m good with the free market.
Hey. I’m part of the team that developed ZORE X. Just important for me to point out that everything about ZORE X is designed and engineered to make two things irrelevant:
1. Control of your gun. The dial overrides any other option. And the gun can only be locked by physically pressing the button. So you’re the only one that can lock it – and nothing can stop you from opening it.
2. Legislation. We intentionally made a lock that has nothing to do with the gun itself (or a magazine). By doing this – we made it impossible to force anybody to use it.
We believe in freedom – and ZORE X is a product of freedom for people who choose to use it.
It’s an interesting idea. Some reactions:
Yes, Bluetooth means it’s short range. So you’d know your gun moved, but then again, if it’s not there any longer, you might guess it was stolen. It won’t tell you where it went. That’s good in a sense (the bad guys can’t snoop on you).
It won’t work on revolvers.
It requires two hands. Perhaps not to unlock, but to remove it since you have to unload it from the chamber. By contrast, safes work, in general, one-handed.
Can easily be opened with one hand. And if you keep a round in the chamber – this is irrelevant anyways. For people who don’t keep their gun with a bullet in the barrel – charging the gun with two hands is something they are doing anyways.
And we chose not to put a GPS in to avoid big brother issues.
Good point on GPS.
On the two hands: yes, you can unlock it with one hand. But then you have to cycle the slide, which (normally) requires two. The same is true if you leave the chamber empty, but it’s fairly standard to keep the chamber loaded for a defensive gun, and if you do, then one hand is all that is required.
Right. If you leave a gun with a bullet in the chamber ZORE X is irrelevant.
I have read the FAQs and seen the demos. I have read the ZORE Watchdog update and responses. My apologies up front, but we have to discuss these topics very passionately because so much is on the line with firearms ownership. We have a political party that is dedicated to disarming us and presidential candidates that think the Australian gun confiscation model is acceptable here. So I am going to be harsh.
First off, the ZORE X is an impressive and well thought out locking storage device. They did take great pains to address issues of the firearm owners. Is it enough?
Some of my complaints still stand. We already see “safe storage” requirements out there in silly liberal cities. The ZORE X would simply get rolled up into this misguided legislation when they mandate that ALL firearms are locked up when not in use, which may be contrary to the wishes and needs of many firearms owners. That is not a specific slight against the ZORE X, it is just a reality of any devices like it (including the humble and inefficient trigger lock). So, they are not “mandate-proof” regardless of whether they are part of the firearm or magazine. They are simply not immune from the stupid and craven politicians. No one is immune from their control fetish.
Another rare issue, not unique to the ZORE X, is if you are unable to communicate how to unlock it or are unconscious, then a good guy cannot use your firearm on your behalf. True with other systems, too, but this goes back to the issue of mandates.
I am dubious about the electronics still. The claim is that the manual operation overrides the electronics. It would take a huge effort of the government to use the BlueTooth connection as a means of putting in malware or backdoors that would bypass the manual operation, but it still sounds possible. Yachdav Gilbar says that only you can lock it and nothing can stop it from being unlocked. The method, if I understand correctly is that the electronics sense the inappropriate charging attempt and they cause the “bullet” to expand to stop the process. The key here is that if this is corrupted, why could it not be activated to lock it regardless of the use of the manual combination process? I may be overthinking this, and the risk is very, very small, but I do not wish to take even that remote chance.
Regarding tracking the firearm…hmm, they can track your iPhone GPS that is short range linked via BlueTooth to the ZORE X and it even has an app communicating with it or a known Wi-Fi router that is paired by bridging. So, I do think they might be able to determine the location if they were really determined to do so. We have a GPS phone, an app, and possibly a Wi-Fi router, all as potential security risks. Basically electronics make the firearm vulnerable.
Let me give you a hyperbolic example. They somehow mandate this product for ALL firearms users. Hell, the government even provides them for “free” for all the 300+ million firearms or it is a felony crime. Then, when they want to raid a house of a dissident, they send by a transmitting vehicle that has a backdoor code that causes the ZORE X to continuously lock the firearm for a period of time sufficient for the “storm troopers” to do their jack-booted thug activities. Given that the government has spent obscene amounts of our money to violate our 4th Amendment rights with their NSA eavesdropping and has the NDAA in place, and made the news for getting into iPhones of terrorists, I don’t think I am too paranoid.
Now in the defense of ZORE X. It should do the job of locking your firearm based on the description of the mechanism. The manual code entry approach is super clever. Similar to a gun safe, it would prevent unauthorized users, including a child, from a most grievous accidental shooting. Finally, great efforts have been taken to avoid abuse of it by the government. So, if you are not paranoid like me and you need a highly portable gun locking solution that is better than a clunky trigger lock, it is worth serious consideration.
Thanks for the long response. A lot of good questions – I’ll try and answer them all.
1. The most important thing I think I haven’t made clear – is that the two systems – the manual and the app unlocking systems are separate from each other. So even if someone managed to theoretically take control of the mobile system – there isn’t any connection between it and the manual system and since all the mobile system allows you to do is open your lock – a hacker will only be able to open your gun in that theoretical event.
2. I agree with what you write about nothing being 100% legislation proof – but here are my thoughts and arguments why legislating ZORE X is irrelevant:
A. It doesn’t fit every gun. Unlike cable locks – ZORE X isn’t relevant for all guns. Revolvers are irrelevant, some calibers are irrelevant and we probably will never have compatible locks for every caliber available. Left shooting guns are irrelevant for ZORE X as well. All this means legislation will have to address specific guns. Again – not impossible – but I have a hard time imagining this happening.
B. The cost of ZORE X. You mentioned the option of theoretically giving it out for free (like cable locks) but this would cost much more than what cable locks cost. Again – not impossible but this adds to the unlikeliness of this happening.
3. Your concern about unlocking a gun in a stressful situation is clear. Everything about ZORE X is designed to make it as easy as possible to do. We’re actually going to add another RFID option in the future to make it even easier and faster – but will always have the RAPIDial which allows you not to need an external key or depend on unreliable fingerprint technology. That being said – an unlocked gun will always be more accessible than a locked gun – no matter how fast unlocking it is. So if someone doesn’t lock his gun – ZORE X will be slowing him down and he’ll probably never get it – and that’s ok with us. We’re not trying to slow anybody down – the opposite is true. We’re seeking to make the response of those who do lock their guns faster.
4. The expansion of the bullet inside the chamber is 100% mechanic. So taking over the mobile system or even the bluetooth connection can’t cause the expansion. The only thing it can do is prevent the expansion – allowing the opening of the gun. So in any case locking of the device can not be done remotely.
5. Tacking the firearm etc. I think your right about what you write there. It comes down to how determined they might be. That’s a lot of effort I don’t wee happening without a reason – but for the paranoid question / concern you probably are right. I think the best argument for ZORE X regarding this question would be the fact that it’s a storage device – so when your gun is on you – ZORE X is not an therefor when you are with a gun on you – no one will be knowing what’s with the gun. This is why we so strongly and intentionally made sure everything we do has nothing to do with actually embedding anything in a gun or magazine.
Again – thanks for your response. A lot of people like ZORE X. A lot of people have many concerns about it – and we highly appreciate criticism – especially when it comes in this respectful way. This criticism is what allows us to improve ZORE X.
Beautiful response and you really cleared up some stuff.
I was confused by the locking mechanism. I had it backwards! However, since you have confirmed that the mechanical and the electrical systems are truly separate then my hypothetical worst case scenario is just not applicable. Basically, if the worst they can do is UNLOCK your gun, I do not see that boogeyman threat anymore.
I also agree now that it would be hard to mandate ZORE X for all firearms because not all calibers would be created by your company and it does not work on revolvers.
The only final tiny concern might be the app which is a small indication to people that you have a firearm. Since I reside in the less than gun friendly state of California, some people get uptight about that and it is one way that a rogue government could ID a firearm owner (at a great effort I would think though).
I wish you luck with your product. Best regards.
On that last point: if you live in a fascist state like that, the government already knows, because it forces you to get government permits before you can exercise your natural right of self defense with suitable tools.
The scenario is more real in states like NH or VT where no such permit system exists and people can lawfully own guns without the state knowing about it. But in such states the scenario you mention would be less of a concern.
The gun should be on your person. If it’s upstairs, under the bed, shackled with a gizmo, you’re already several steps behind when the threat comes calling.
No one thinks to lock up my chainsaw, or my gasoline cans. Is it because they hate me and want my kids to die? No. It is because no one (at the moment) is trying to ban chainsaws or gas cans. Therefore if you want to understand what a “free market” would be with regard to gun locks, we have a fair good model in the chainsaw lock market (or substitute your favorite, relatively un-restricted dangerous power tool or accessory). The chainsaw lock market hardly exists at all, so far as I’ve seen. The closest I know of is a slip-on chain guard, but I see that more as a protection for the chain than for people.
How many tragic accidents occur with chainsaws (or substitute your favorite, dangerous power tool) and children? More than a few, but you don’t hear about them because no one (at the moment) is trying to ban chainsaws or other power tools.
A chainsaw costs about as much as a pistol. How many people do you know who keep their chainsaw in a safe or with a lock over the throttle trigger? I’m betting on zero.
The very existence of this discussion of gun locks is because, and ONLY because, some people want to ban guns. Otherwise we’d ALL be talking about something else.
This subject would never have entered our minds. Such is the tenacity of our programming that we’re seriously discussing this issue as though it ever had any merit. We’re dancing a dance written and choreographed by our enemies, as though we thought it up for ourselves.
When you refer to a “free market” in gun locks then you’re talking about something that doesn’t exist, and cannot exist. It’s approaching that concept of a government-mandated “free market solution” of carbon credits cap and trade, which is a contradiction in terms.
If the threat of mandates (and the possibility of profiting from such mandates) doesn’t eliminate a free market, corrupt lawyers and judges will.
No one alive today has ever seen a free market. We can’t really even imagine a free market anymore, and would probably look upon it with disdain if we actually saw one. Progressive leaders and tacticians understand all this perfectly. How many of you understand it?
I doubt there are many five year old children that can start a chainsaw, let alone lift it and put holes in walls using it. Pulling a semi-auto gun from a holster, flipping off the safety (if any), then pulling the trigger is well within the capabilities of almost any five year old. True, there aren’t many accidental shootings of this type that we hear about. But how many didn’t we hear about that only damaged property, hearing, and created a few more gray hairs? And chainsaws aren’t left in the nightstand drawer, or in your holster on the floor, while you are taking a shower either. Suicides are frequent implemented with guns. Chainsaws? Near, if not absolutely, zero.
Or what about the home with an overly emotional teenager in it?
If this device gives people the piece of mind to own a gun despite at risk people having potential access to it I’m all for having a free market solution to give them that piece of mind and increasing the number of gun owners.
Ok on the chainsaw, but what about the axe?
You keep an axe in your nightstand? Or are you saying angst ridden teenagers kill themselves with axes?
😉
No, but I keep an axe and several hatchets in my tool bin.
Suicide is a complete red herring. There’s been ample evidence that availability of specific means doesn’t affect the suicide rate; it merely changes which means are used. In any case, suicide isn’t a crime, so why discuss it?
While I’ll agree that it is mostly a red herring that isn’t the perception of most people. If this device will alleviate that concern some people have over having a firearm in the home then I think it is worthwhile to have it on the market.
Given what I read from the company’s people, it’s pretty clear to me that their intentions are good. The question, as Lyle discussed so eloquently, is whether they are too naive about the evil intentions of our opponents. It doesn’t look like this is a camel’s nose, but the best way to keep camels out of your tent is to not let them get within a mile of you.
It looks like a reasonable design, and I agree they sound like good people.
But of course no company has ever been taken over by someone with different goals or desires and changed designs or supported problematic legislation. What happens when they are taken over by SJWs?
Like Smith & Wesson, some years ago? Yes.
I (being part of the team) think the Smith & Wesson is the best answer – even for us (the ZORE team). I’m not asking anybody to believe me or trust that I won’t change what I think and decide I’m pro legislation.
Just asking you to believe I’m not stupid enough to change my mind, decide I’m pro legislation, get boycotted and that will be the end of the company.
Hey! I saw this thing featured on The Firearm Blog a few weeks ago!
And… um, completely failed to notice Yachdav in the comments section.
I think I might end up buying a 9mm version for my CZ75 when it comes out. There’s toddlers in the house on occasion, so I can’t leave a pistol out unprotected. Installing this device would let me keep the CZ in a desk drawer, where I can get to it faster than the guns in the safe.
If I may make one suggestion to Mr. Gilbar, if the ZORE-X proves to be a success and the company expands to new products, please consider designing a pistol safe. The reaction many people have to this device is “A pistol safe is cheaper and more secure”, when it really isn’t. Sebastian over at PAGunblog wrote a post about this a few years ago: http://www.pagunblog.com/2012/07/27/beware-of-cheap-gun-safes/
So it seems that the inexpensive pistol safes on the market offer little more than peace of mind when it comes to protecting guns. There should be a market for a pistol safe that is designed by security experts to offer maximum protection for minimum cost.
Unfortunately that blog has a broken video link.
The question is what you’d expect a gun safe to do. Should it be child proof? Sure. Should it be burglar proof? That’s a dramatically different requirement. For example, a handgun safe that weighs less than 100 pounds is unlikely to offer a burglar more than a few seconds resistance.
There seem to be large (cabinet size) gun safes designed by competent people. But they don’t seem to do pistol safes, probably because small and secure are contradictory requirements.
Quirel – Thanks.
1. About getting the 9mm. If you’d like to get notified when we launch our campaign so you could get the early bird prices please leave your email here: http://zore.life/youtube
2. As for your suggestion about making safes. First of all thanks for the compliments. Right now we are focused on ZORE X and the ZORE Watchdog (a notification-only device for: 1. People who don’t lock their guns 2. Keep their guns with a round chambered 3. Want a movement notification for a safe’s door) but if everything goes the way we believe it will safe’s are an obvious option for growth for us.
Paul Kining – thanks.
If you compare ZORE X to a heavy safe – a heavy safe is much better if the concern is a burglar.
If you compare it to a light safe – like you said light safes tend to give little protection in terms of getting to the gun. Some solutions can be taken away altogether with the gun inside – to a place where the burglar has time to get the rid of the safe – and than he’ll have a working gun in his hands.
While ZORE falls into the second category – easy to take altogether with the gun – it has two major advantages.
1. You get notified when the gun starts moving.
2. The locking mechanism is in the gun. Trying to remove it will damage the barrel. So the burglar will end up with a damaged gun.
You’re quite right about carrying safes away. I read many years ago that any safe that weighs less than 800 pounds should be bolted securely to the building, because otherwise it can be carried away.