There are some anti-gun people out there that apparently think they are writing a brief that will win the Heller decision. As near as I can tell they don’t realize that decision came down over 26 months ago.
There are some anti-gun people out there that apparently think they can pull the same scam they pulled back in 1994 about “assault weapons” again. As near as I can tell they don’t realize so many millions of those “Evil Black Rifles” have been sold in the past few years that even if Congress didn’t know the topic was only a few milligrams short of being full-scale chain reaction that they would qualify as guns in “common use” and protected by the Heller decision.
There are some anti-gun people out there that apparently think they can claim blood will run in the streets if people are “allowed” to exercise their specific enumerated right to keep and bear arms. As near as I can tell they don’t realize there are so many states with millions of concealed licenses and so many states that have allowed open carry for, like, forever, with the greatest blood flow in the “gun free” zones that we crush that argument almost before their electrons reach the far end of the Internet.
There are some anti-gun people out there that apparently think claiming children are dying by the dozen each day they can gain sympathy for their cause. As near as I can tell they don’t realize we long ago caught on to their definition of “children” which includes “young people” up to the age of 25—most of whom are shot while involved in criminal activities and many are even legal, justified, shootings by the police and private citizens.
There are some anti-gun people out there that are apparently so stupid they don’t know how to distinguish truth from falsity and are apparently unable to accept that zero, or even negative, correlation conclusively demonstrates their premise is false. As near as I can tell they don’t realize most people recognize them as fools and charlatans within minutes.
I realize it is sometimes very difficult but it is a waste of time to argue with them. They are no different than those that wave the Confederate flag and claim, “The South will rise again!” They no different than the “Truthers.” They are no different than those that want to relive some critical point of WW II and have the Germans come out on top and complete the “Final Solution”. They are no different than those that cry and whine, “God damn, God damn, what is this God damn country coming to that the niggers have got guns, the niggers are armed and the police can’t even arrest them!“
Let them beat their dead horses by themselves. They are irrelevant to both the present and the future. Spend your time on the real front rather than on conquered and fully occupied territory.
If you will notice the Brady Campaign has fully abandoned the “collective right” view of the Second Amendment. While they still toss out small trial balloons of “blood in the street” and occasionally throw in an “assault weapon” reference they are spending most of their time and energy on things they have some hope of winning or at least stalling. They are spending their time on things like the “gun show loophole” or stopping legislation that would reduce ATF abuses.
While framed in the classic manner the “gun show” issue is probably a loser too. But Mayor Bloomberg and his “illegal guns” sound bite is good enough to be plausible to the causal observer and might gain some traction.
If you enjoy doing the politics thing then call, write, and visit your elected officials and/or help the NRA-PVC every election season.
If you enjoy teaching people to shoot then get your NRA certification and issue certificates to your students who successfully complete your classes. If you enjoy competition get out there and make a good showing. Then let your friends, neighbors, and the local newspapers know about the monthly match results.
If you have construction skills and time then help a local non-profit range improve their shooting facilities.
If you have more money than time and energy then donate to the Second Amendment Foundation, Calguns, Jews For The Preservation of Firearms Ownership, or some other gun rights organization you align yourself with.
If you enjoy arguing and pointing out the fallacies of the anti-gun bigots then take on the biggest baddest dogs the other side has to offer—The Brady Campaign and Mayors Against Illegal Guns. Sure, as dogs go, the Brady’s are the equivalent of a whimpering, freshly neutered, toy poodle. But they are the best the other side has. Read their media releases and follow their Twitter feed to keep up on where they think they can gain some traction and take them on in whatever arena they present themselves.
Whatever you do, remember there are a couple names for those that continue attempting the ride the dead horse they are beating. They are called “losers” and “crazy”. The same names may also apply to those that spend more than a few minutes trying to engage them.
Just curious: Why do you keep posting links to those blogs if we’re just supposed to ignore them?
I presume what prompted this post is what’s going on over at Japete’s place. I would point out that I’m the first person that commented over there and I found her blog post because you linked to it.
Hmmm.
It has been obvious through the links that you’ve posted to japete’s blog that she’s sincere in her desire to “do something” following the death of her sister, but it’s become also obvious that she’s very misinformed about the issues.
There’s always the hope that, should someone point her to better information than that which she receives from Paul Helmke and Dennis Hennigan, that she might begin to realize how misinformed she actually is.
At this point, however, after having her dismiss information from well-established anti-gun “researchers” and even government statistics as “innuendo” because it’s not what she wants to hear, that she is beyond reaching.
That’s fine. But at least I tried.
If you see someone thrashing frantically around in the water, do you automatically assume that they’re right where they want to be? Or do you at least reach out to try to find out if they are willing to accept help?
FYI Curt, you weren’t the first to comment….but rather the first to be published.
Her motivations for that are still a mystery to me.
Great Post, Curt and Joe, I will say I’m firmly between the both of you. I find people like Japete, and MikeB ect ect as totally irrelevant and crazy. I will occasionally spar with them for my own amusement alone, as my days trying to convince them into an honest debate (the same tactic that converted me long ago) has proven fruitless, and lead me to relive that people of this ilk have some pretty serious mental problems, and cannot function as rational people.
That being said its VERY obvious that these unprofessional bloggers are openly crazy and irrational…but I find it VERY useful that their irrational and crazy behavior is mimicked by groups like the Brady Campaign and MAIG ect ect.
Yep, MikeB and Japete are irrelevant and crazy, but what exactly are the differences between them, and Helmke, Sugarmann, and Bloomberg, besides having staff that will correct them if they put their foot in their mouth?
Great post Joe. You have an uncanny ability to sum up what us on the pro-gun side already know. Well done.
Sailorcurt,
My arrival at this point of view only occurred in the last few days. I guess I’m just a little bit slow at times.
I don’t see a problem with spending a few minutes gently pointing out ignorance of someone when you first come across them. But after they continue beating the same dead horse after you point it has been rotting for a year I think it is time to move on.
Another exception is Japete. She is on the board of directors at the Brady Campaign. You can demoralize her by pointing out the fallacies of her belief system and have a similar effect on the Brady Campaign as a whole. While the Brady Campaign does have many of the same mental defects and do sometimes do attempt to ride the same dead horses they have been beating for (sometimes) decades they still have big enough audience that they can and do influence some other people. As an organization they provide a support network which enables the believers to keep believing and to actually increase their proselyting when their beliefs have been disproved (I see another longish post in my future or see also Kevin’s posts on “Do it again, only harder“). They also have shown they are capable of adapting to the conditions. As they adapt we need to adapt as well and fight them on whatever is the current front.
Let’s use the tactics of Alinsky on them: isolate individuals such as Japete rather than the “Brady Campaign,” and demonize her as an irrational anti-rights bigot wallowing in the blood of her child, and ridicule her for using obvious fallacies in her attempt to strip others of rights.
Can’t hurt, can it? What are the irrational lying anti-rights bigots going to do in response, call us insensitive to a mother who lost a child?
Heck, they are already trying to deprive us as individuals of enumerated Constitutional rights – why should name calling by an irrational, lying anti-rights bigots hurt any at all, except to prove again our point that they are the ones who are anti-civil-rights?
I really should read Alinsky. I wish it were available in audible form.
As I said I think Japete is a special case. She is on the board of the Brady Campaign.
You should keep your facts straight. It was her sister that she lost, not a child.
But as to your main point, isolation of the individual… Some people might be susceptible to that tactic. But others obviously aren’t. The point of my post was to encourage others to move on from those fights that are non-productive and to help distinguish between the fights that could be productive from those that are a waste of time. I don’t pretend to know the “rules” that can perfectly predict which fights are which. Each of us has different skill sets and viewpoints. Specific utilization of those skills is usually best left up to the individual. I only hoped to provide some guidelines.
Joe,
There are many ways of isolating an individual; one of which is to saturate their blog with comments providing evidence, statistics, applicable laws and correct information.
Instead of being an unopposed echo chamber, the message they are trying to send is swamped with the truth.
People like Japete and MikeB302000 sound reasonable on the surface but it wasn’t until we started pushing for details that MikeB302000 showed his true colors.
Now most everyone knows his stripe and doesn’t tolerate his trolling habits.
How could we have done that without engaging him?
I didn’t say he shouldn’t have been engaged. Just move on after he keeps beating the dead horse.
I spent a few minutes over there, then realized he was on the BOD for the Brady Campaign. Such a person cannot be reached nor reasoned with.
Interesting that we once again run into an anti-gun blogger who is a bought & paid for shill. Their lack of grassroots is astounding.
All very good points Joe, especially considering how long we have been working with some of these people – a quote about wrestling with pigs comes to mind.
That said, one must be careful of the danger of repeated, unchallenged lies – if a lie is said enough times, people start to believe it is true, regardless of whether or not it actually is… After all, average Americans were wholeheartedly convinced that firearms with specific aesthetic features were somehow more dangerous than those without, and it took more than a few decades of beating the facts into everloving submission for that particular falsehood to be finally abandoned.
In Sparky’s case, I definitely agree that letting him rot in his own personal, private hell of ignorance and idiocy is the better course of action… However, challenging the repeated lies, mistruths, and distortions he produces is not without merit, and, in fact, does assist our cause by preventing those fictions from embedding themselves too deeply into the American culture.
‘Course, our time maybe could be better spent on other pursuits, but they are not, necessarily, mutually exclusive :).
On a somewhat related note, and out of curiosity, does this mean Sparky will not be commenting here in the future?
Mike w.,
Japete is a woman. Not that is matters much in this context but factual details are important to me (“Someone is WRONG on the Internet” could be my motto and the death of me if I didn’t practice some self-restraint).
Linoge,
The repeated, unchallenged, lies should be addressed where this is an audience greater than his or her echo chamber. Comments on sites that have larger audiences and especially in the MSM are good places to stand your ground.
MikeB302000 is welcome to comment here as long as he plays nicely. “Plays nicely” is subject to my whim but is unlikely to change much from the previous “standards” I have sort of enforced in the last six+ years of blogging. Basically, don’t advocate anything illegal, don’t call anyone names, and address the issues and not the person.
Ahh, in that case, I apologize for missing that clarification earlier in your post… And welcome to the club ;). A few of us have been saying for a while now that if all of the pro-rights types were to stop commenting at MikeB’s place, he would fold up shop within six months, if even that… which dovetails perfectly into letting them be beaten to death by their own dead horses.
Unfortunately, there are a few holdouts who just insist on keeping the idiocy machine going…
But, yeah, taking down the lies on more-public, larger stage… definitely a fan :).
Joe – after reading this I went over to Japete’s blog and tried to engage her with some rebuttals to factual inaccuracies, and yeah – it’s beating a dead horse in an empty barn.
I think your advice to take this task to venues with a broader audience makes sense; some people simply cannot be reasoned with and will not accept being corrected (not sure if you’ve read “When Corrections Fail: The Persistence of Political Misperceptions” by Nyhan and Reifler, if not you might want to take a look) and if they are the sole audience there’s really no point.