Rob and I had a nice chat with Caleb and Bonnie on Gun Nuts at Blog Talk Radio last night.

We mostly talked about the Para sponsored weekend at Blackwater. But we touched on Boomershoot just a little bit too.

We did talk about the bet between Caleb and I about who is the better shooter and how that bet came about. We didn’t get the stakes of the bet nailed down but that may have been settled today in the comments of his post about our discussion last night. Rob and Bonnie have their own posts about last nights show too.

To answer the question that keeps coming up–the bet came about in the following email thread:

From: Say Uncle
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 6:40 AM
To: Sebastian; Ahab; Bitter Bitch; Deleted @progunprogressive.com; Joe Huffman
Subject: My dad can beat up your dad

 

http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2008/07/09/chicks-and-guns-17/#comment-203007

 

From: Joe Huffman
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 9:27 AM
To: Say Uncle; Sebastain; Aha’; Bitter Bitch; Deleted @progunprogressive.com
Subject: RE: My dad can beat up your dad

 

Almost for certain he can.

 

My dad is almost 85 years old and not thinking too clearly anymore.

 

How about between the two of us we see who shoots the best at summer camp? Aren’t you the betting type?

 

J

 

-joe-

From: Say Uncle
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 9:36 AM
To: Joe Huffman
Cc: Sebastian; Ahab; Bitter Bitch; Deleted @progunprogressive.com
Subject: Re: My dad can beat up your dad

 

I am but I only bet on things in which I have a positive expectation. In this case, I’m guessing I don’t have such an expectation 😉

In fact, due to my recent lack of time at the range, I’ll put me at dead last!

From: Ahab
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 9:54 AM
To: Say Uncle; Joe Huffman; Sebastian; Bitter Bitch; Deleted @progunprogressive.com
Subject: Re: My dad can beat up your dad

 

I’ll take that bet, joe

 

From: Joe Huffman
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 10:02 AM
To: ‘Ahab’; ‘Say Uncle’; Sebastian; ‘Bitter Bitch’; Deleted @progunprogressive.com’
Subject: RE: My dad can beat up your dad

 

Name your terms and I’ll think about it.

 

 

-joe-

 

From: Ahab
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 10:13 AM
To: Joe Huffman
Cc: Say Uncle; Sebastian; Bitter Bitch; Deleted @progunprogressive.com
Subject: Re: My dad can beat up your dad

 

Six pack of the winner’s favorite beer?  Bottle of the winner’s favorite booze, not to exceed, oh, I don’t know…$30 bucks?

From: Joe Huffman
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 10:51 AM
To: ‘Ahab’
Cc: ‘Say Uncle’; Sebastian; ‘Bitter Bitch’; Deleted @progunprogressive.com’
Subject: RE: My dad can beat up your dad

 

The number of beers I have had in my lifetime can be counted on my fingers (base ten, not base two). Beyond that the last drink of alcohol I had was the glass of wine at the NRA convention dinner. That said, because of my sweet tooth there is no such thing as something “too sweet” and I like ice wine.

 

But more important to me is how are we going to determine the winner? And what sort of handicap are you giving me? I’m probably at least 20 years older than you. I’ve had a couple surgeries on my left knee and my right leg and foot is still swollen from the ATV that landed on it at Boomershoot 2008. I’m overweight and my eyes take minutes to change focus from front sight distance to target distance.

 

And what caliber gun did you select? I’m going to shooting a .45. If we do the contest at the end of the weekend after shooting 1500 rounds in the heat and humidity my old muscles, ligaments, and bones will have taken a lot more damage than someone much younger shooting a 9mm.

 

-joe-

 

From: Ahab
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 10:54 AM
To: Joe Huffman
Cc: Say Uncle; Sebastian; Bitter Bitch; Deleted @progunprogressive.com
Subject: Re: My dad can beat up your dad

 

I reckon determining the winner would be kind of challenging, and we would have to handicap because I picked the 9mm.

I don’t know, let’s turn it over to the posse to see if they have any ideas.  Well, everyone except for Robb, because his idea will involve jokes about sausage.

 

From: Joe Huffman
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 11:04 AM
To: ‘Ahab’
Cc: ‘Say Uncle’; Sebastian; ‘Bitter Bitch’; Deleted @progunprogressive.com’
Subject: RE: My dad can beat up your dad

 

How about an El Presidente? Score it according to USPSA rules and that would take into account the 9mm versus .45. It would also test a number of different skills including the draw, the reload, accuracy and speed.

 

And you are forgetting the handicap I should get for my age and infirmities. J

 

-joe-

 

From: Ahab
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 11:07 AM
To: Joe Huffman; Say Uncle; Sebastian; Bitter Bitch; Deleted@progunprogressive.com
Subject: Re: My dad can beat up your dad

 

Yeah, but you’ve been shooting for a lot longer than me.

 

🙂

 

From: Joe Huffman
Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 12:08 PM
To: ‘Ahab’
Cc: ‘Say Uncle’; Sebastian; ‘Bitter Bitch’; Deleted@progunprogressive.com’
Subject: RE: My dad can beat up your dad

 

Ignoring a 100 rounds or so that I shot when I was living at home on the farm I have been shooting for about 15 years. Is that more than you?

 

Regardless, I might be willing to give up on getting that handicap if you agree to a shooting test that isn’t too taxing on my aging body.

 

So, what are your thoughts on the El Presidente? Or do you just want to wimp out entirely on a contest?

 

 

-joe-

 

From: Ahab
Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 12:10 PM
To: Joe Huffman
Cc: Say Uncle; Sebastian; Bitter Bitch; Deleted@progunprogressive.com
Subject: Re: My dad can beat up your dad

 

I would shoot an El Presidente, that sounds good.  I’ve been shooting seriously since I was about 19, so that would give me 7 years, giving you a bit more experience.  Plus it’s been my personal observation that experience and treachery defeat youthful enthusiasm most of the time. 

 

From: Joe Huffman
Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 12:20 PM
To: ‘Ahab’
Cc: ‘Say Uncle’; Sebastian; ‘Bitter Bitch’; Deleted@progunprogressive.com’
Subject: RE: My dad can beat up your dad

 

Have you ever shot an El Presidente before? There’s not much treachery possible there.

 

-joe-

 

From: Ahab 
Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 12:26 PM
To: Joe Huffman
Cc: Say Uncle; Sebastian; Bitter Bitch; Deleted@progunprogressive.com
Subject: Re: My dad can beat up your dad

 

Fair enough, I’ve only shot one el presidente in my time, so if you’ve shot 10 or 12 that would count under the “treachery” category.  🙂

But no, I am totally game for an El Pres as the deciding factor.

 

From: Sebastian
Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 12:29 PM
To: Ahab
Cc: Joe Huffman; Say Uncle; Bitter Bitch; Deleted@progunprogressive.com
Subject: Re: My dad can beat up your dad

 

Sorry Caleb, but I’d put my money on Joe 😉

 

From: Joe Huffman
Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 12:49 PM
To: ‘Ahab’
Cc: ‘Say Uncle’; Sebastian; ‘Bitter Bitch’; Deleted@progunprogressive.com’
Subject: RE: My dad can beat up your dad

 

Ø  I am totally game for an El Pres as the deciding factor.

 

With all applicable USPSA rules applying (http://www.uspsa.org/rules/2008HandgunRulesindexed.pdf)?

 

-joe-

I can’t find any further email on it but I think it was in comments on some blog post we did agreed to the contest as being the USPSA El Presidente classifier with all USPSA rules applying. The stakes will probably end up being 250 rounds of 180 grain FMJ .40 S&W ammo. That’s higher stakes that I would really think are appropriate but we arrived at that after I suggested a case (typically 1000 rounds) was too much. [shrug] I can handle the pain of losing my first bet in 30 years and if Caleb is okay with taking that risk then I guess that settles it.

Just a couple more items of potential interest:

1. 
   
   You will notice Caleb (Ahab) said ” experience and treachery defeat youthful enthusiasm”. Which was a nice way of saying old age and treachery.


2. 
   
   Last night on the show I said I accepted the bet mostly because of his attitude. I have never seen him shoot (I have seen Say Uncle shoot and I’m pretty sure I can “take” him). I met Caleb last May and he had a slight attitude that was completely lacking in every shooter that I personal know and I know can beat me. Just a little too cocksure of himself. I explained this last night and in an email after the show he said, “that was the nicest way in which I’ve ever been called an arrogant bastard”. That’s me. Always the diplomat*.

* Diplomat: One skilled in the art of saying “Nice doggy” until he can find the right sized stick.